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Shahril Dzulkifli
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 Posted: Wed 02 Apr, 2008 5:11 am Post subject: Zaporozhian Cossack Scimitar, 18th Century |
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Below is an extremely rare antique 18th century Zaporozhian Cossack sword made in the manner of a Persian scimitar. Details: A single–edged curved wide and very heavy Damascus steel blade, decorated with silver inlaid ornaments. The hilt of the sword is made in a typical Persian style, with a brass cross-guard, wooden grips with copper and brass straps, an iron pommel cup and wire wrap. A leather-bound and stitched with spiral brass wire wooden scabbard with two iron fittings with loops for suspension primitively decorated with a stamped design of oak leaves and acorns. Many of these types of crudely made swords in the style of the Persian scimitar can be seen in museums around in Ukraine and are associated with the Zaporozhian Cossacks and are dated to the 17th-18th century. The Cossacks imported blades for swords mostly from the Crimean Tatar Khanate, Persia or Turkey, which were then mounted locally in Ukraine but in the Persian and Turkish style of mounting. This sword, except for a general scimitar pattern, has not a single detail connecting it with fine Islamic art work. All of the features of this sword such as the wooden hilt with straps and the cross-guard made of various metals as copper, iron and brass, the fittings of the scabbard made of an iron sheet and stamped with a design of oak leaves and acorns, an uneven spiral brass wire on the leather-bound scabbard, and the crude silver ornaments on the blade, indicate that this is rare example of a Zaporozhian Cossack's sword made in the style of a Persian scimitar. Condition: The sword is in good condition considering its age with minor wear and pitting except for the scabbard which is damaged with a split, a broken end, and the leather is extremely dry and fragile, partly missing.
Last edited by Shahril Dzulkifli on Sun 06 Apr, 2008 4:05 am; edited 1 time in total
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Ken Speed
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| Posted: Sat 05 Apr, 2008 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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What is a Z unpronouncable Cossack? I didn't know that there were varieties of Cossacks, I thought they were like Model T's 
Ken Speed
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Anders Backlund
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| Posted: Sat 05 Apr, 2008 9:34 pm Post subject: |
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I'm no saber expert, so this might be a stupid question but I've always wondered; how can one draw a blade that has a stronger curve on one half of the blade then the other? It seems to me like it should get stuck in the scabbard.
| Ken Speed wrote: | What is a Z unpronouncable Cossack? I didn't know that there were varieties of Cossacks, I thought they were like Model T's
Ken Speed |
I'm guessing a cossack from Zaporozhia.
The sword is an ode to the strife of mankind.
"This doesn't look easy... but I bet it is!"
-Homer Simpson.
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Lafayette C Curtis
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| Posted: Sun 06 Apr, 2008 2:31 am Post subject: |
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| Ken Speed wrote: | | What is a Z unpronouncable Cossack? I didn't know that there were varieties of Cossacks, I thought they were like Model T's |
There were many ethnic sub-groups of Cossack, much in the same way that the population of the U.S. of A. can be divided into regions like New England, the Midwest, etc. this Wikipedia page is a fairly good overview of who and what the Zaporozhian Cossacks were, while for the other Cossacks you can check the general Cossacks article.
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Shahril Dzulkifli
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| Posted: Sun 06 Apr, 2008 4:04 am Post subject: Zaporozhian Cossack Scimitar, 18th Century |
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The etchings found on the sword's blade.
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Nikolay Yermolenko
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| Posted: Sun 06 Apr, 2008 9:32 am Post subject: |
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Very nice blade!
To nie sztuka zabić kruka, to nie sprawa dla zolnerza, ale sztuka całkiem śmieża gołą dupą zabić jeża.
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Ken Speed
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| Posted: Sun 06 Apr, 2008 11:03 am Post subject: |
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Lafayette wrote,"There were many ethnic sub-groups of Cossack, much in the same way that the population of the U.S. of A. can be divided into regions like New England, the Midwest, etc. this Wikipedia page is a fairly good overview of who and what the Zaporozhian Cossacks were, while for the other Cossacks you can check the general Cossacks article."
Well Gee,
If you're going to insist on using logic and common sense! I had no idea, I pretty much thought they were a unified bunch and that they almost all died in the Russian Revolution fighting for the Czar. There's a whole lot of history and it isn't easy keeping up with it all.
I'm constantly amazed at the things I learn here!
Thanks,
Ken
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Manouchehr M.
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Kelly Powell
Location: lawrence, kansas Joined: 27 Feb 2008
Posts: 123
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| Posted: Mon 07 Apr, 2008 3:17 am Post subject: |
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Would like to swing that....That kind of hilt intrigues me.....would you use a "handshake" grip with that?Would the 90 deg bend like that act as a wrist support?
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Shahril Dzulkifli
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| Posted: Mon 07 Apr, 2008 7:26 am Post subject: Zaporozhian Cossack Scimitar, 18th Century |
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Manouchehr,
I do have the blade's close-ups.
 Attachment: 49.22 KB
Attachment: 84.21 KB
[ Download ]
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Felix Grashalmstahl
Location: Moscovite Joined: 02 Aug 2007
Posts: 13
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| Posted: Mon 07 Apr, 2008 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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Looks very similar to the shashka of the minor staff of turkmen division, Russian army, 1895
length 940 mm,
blade 810 mm,
blade width 34 mm
weight 1350 gr.
UPD: this turkmen division shashka it is not damascus, of course.
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Kerim Mamedov
Location: Poland Joined: 21 Mar 2007
Posts: 53
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| Posted: Thu 10 Apr, 2008 8:46 am Post subject: |
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Well, no one will know about it beter than Manouchehr  but in my opinion it's shamshir in ewery part of it, well, blade looks a little bit wider than usual, and engrawes are not tipical for persian arm, but looks like arab alfabet, so, I guess, that if saber (not scimitar  ) is not persian, it can be tatar work (doubtfully) known in Poland as "ordynka" {orda - horde}.
I mean tatars that habited eastern part of Polish kingdom. ( parts of it are in Lituania, Belarussia and Ukraine now)
Howewer tatar handles are a litle bit different from shamshirs - persian handle bends at right angle, tatar ones bend at wide angle, from 45 to 60. But ordynka's blade was wider than shamshir, it was tipicaly cavalery saber, wery popular in 18-th.
at added picture nr 1 is persian, nr 3 is tatar ordynka.
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Felix Grashalmstahl
Location: Moscovite Joined: 02 Aug 2007
Posts: 13
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| Posted: Thu 10 Apr, 2008 9:06 am Post subject: |
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Zaporozhian Cossacks often had battles with turks and persians and many of them were victorious. So, persian arms were common among Cossaks.
Here is one of the most famous paintings of Zaporozhian Cossacks by Ilya Repin http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons...ssacks.jpg (1.2 megabyte - you will like it) One can see many eastern-style weapons here. The painting describes a moment when Cossacks are writing a reply for the ultimatum by Mehmed IV.
Here one can see the text they are laughing at. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reply_of_the_Zaporozhian_Cossacks
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Shayan G
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| Posted: Thu 10 Apr, 2008 11:01 am Post subject: |
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Good grief, how did those ogres ever ride horses? The ones in the painting are enormous! Certainly not the gaunt and wiry horsemen I expected...
http://www.arco-iris.com/George/images/ural_cossack.jpg
I know that's a Ural cossack, but that's always been the image in my mind's eye.
You have to be a man, first, before you can be a gentleman!
~the immortal John Wayne
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Felix Grashalmstahl
Location: Moscovite Joined: 02 Aug 2007
Posts: 13
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Shayan G
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| Posted: Thu 10 Apr, 2008 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Felix Grashalmstahl wrote: | they were not heavier than knights in armour.
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Yes but they weren't exactly riding destriers, either! For a force renowned for lighting-fast maneuvers and tactics, I expected troops a bit more streamlined. As a horse person, I always inwardly groan at the burdens the poor beasts have to bear sometimes... But if those are generals, it would make a lot of sense! Haha. And it's always fun to have one's stereotypes laid waste!
Thanks for the info!
You have to be a man, first, before you can be a gentleman!
~the immortal John Wayne
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Kerim Mamedov
Location: Poland Joined: 21 Mar 2007
Posts: 53
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| Posted: Thu 10 Apr, 2008 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Felix Grashalmstahl wrote: | Zaporozhian Cossacks often had battles with turks and persians and many of them were victorious. So, persian arms were common among Cossaks.
Here is one of the most famous paintings of Zaporozhian Cossacks by Ilya Repin |
Well, Felix... It's a picture 
In fact, they rarely fight with Osmans, ocasionaly serving them as mercenary troops, usually they raided crimea tatars (and vice versa), more equal for there power or turkish setlements on a Black sea. in "real" batles they meet with Osmans as Polish mercenary troops. When they send this famous letter to sultan, Zaporozhie was about 20 years in russian empire.
And I newer heard about cossacks vs. Persia wars, thats a surprise for me
Well, military ogranised society of all kind of outlaws from all over the East Europe, this group had rather eventful history, you can find a lot of it in Net.
Talking about cossacks stile of fight - here: http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grafika:Taborkozacki.jpg
is interesting picture.
Last edited by Kerim Mamedov on Thu 10 Apr, 2008 7:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Kerim Mamedov
Location: Poland Joined: 21 Mar 2007
Posts: 53
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| Posted: Thu 10 Apr, 2008 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Shayan G wrote: |
I know that's a Ural cossack, but that's always been the image in my mind's eye. |
And he is "sotnik" what means "centurion"
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Felix Grashalmstahl
Location: Moscovite Joined: 02 Aug 2007
Posts: 13
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| Posted: Sat 12 Apr, 2008 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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Turkish city of Azov has been held by Zaporozhians since 1637 till 1641. In his famous raid (1667) Razin has captured several Persian cities. Such raids took place rather often.
Russia became an empire in 1721.
Zaporozhye formally was a part of Russia in 1676 (the date of a letter from the painting), but in fact Zaporozhian Sech' was autonomous till the end of the 18th century.
Last edited by Felix Grashalmstahl on Sun 13 Apr, 2008 12:31 am; edited 1 time in total
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Jerzy Miklaszewski
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| Posted: Sat 12 Apr, 2008 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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I actually consider it one of the Cossack Shashkas. (Szaszka)
Though I am no expert: Szaszka much resembles the type of the sword that can be found at Leningrads museum - Ermitaż
here you have a a sample
Though the hilt may differ the style of the blade is much the same.
The hilt seems to derive much from the turkish and arabian(damascen) style of sabers of XVI or even XVII century.
Actually the Cossacks of Zaporoże where mostly very primitive, if not barbaric folk.
The actual cossacks that most of you would mention where more to the west, and they were wielding such things - they were mostly living in Kresy.
Or that what I think - if you want I would be glad to give you a literature to backup my words...
PS: Felix - this saber you showed, are you sure it is a shashka? I would consider that more of the Arabian damascen type saber... (because of the blade fashion)
PS2: Kerim - ordynka is rather Cherkish (or Caucasian) style of sabers - they were the precursors of the shashkas - but the hilt is totally from a different period. It is much younger...
You even showed that in the page of Zabłockis book you included in your posts.
"Work is of two kinds, first altering the position of matter at or near the earth's surface relatively to other such matter, second, telling other people to do so. The first is unpleasant and ill paid; the second is pleasant and highly paid."
Bertrand Russell
Art of the old swordmasters is back to the Castle of Kings!
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This is a standard topic