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James R.Fox
Location: Youngstowm,Ohio Joined: 29 Feb 2008
Posts: 253
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 Posted: Wed 12 Mar, 2008 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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Danial- thanks a lot for the link. This is the type of info I joined for, I know my knowledgs of detail is weak in some areas.
As for the scot pladie, (NOT Kilt,we didn't wear kilts) I am aware of differences in color( Romans and Greeks seemed to have used whire only) style of folding,etc. However, the long wide strip of cloth wound around the body over one or more tunics of wool or linen were the basic garmets of that whole culture group that moved into Europe from the Russian steppe around 1200s bce. I mean Dorians, Latins,Celts, plus the random tribes that became the Dacians,Illiryians etc.
Ja68ms
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Steven H
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| Posted: Thu 13 Mar, 2008 6:53 am Post subject: |
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The Medieval era did have a middle class. The big difference between then and now is that in our era around 50% of the population is middle class (in industrialized nations) and less than 2% farms. In the Medieval era the middle class accounted for around 5%-10% of the population and a majority of the people farmed.
Fighting men came exclusively from the middle and upper classes/nobility. England only expected military service from land-owning freemen whose land was worth at least 1 pound (240d). And military service was only required for nobility (who would have to pay scutage if they didn't serve).
Many musters (arrays ?) had far more people show up than were being contracted. The result was that only the properly equipped (and competent, and preferably experienced) people were selected. There was no need for dirt poor folks who could barely afford a sword, so those people weren't contracted.
Cheers,
Steven
Kunstbruder - Boston area Historical Combat Study
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James R.Fox
Location: Youngstowm,Ohio Joined: 29 Feb 2008
Posts: 253
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| Posted: Thu 13 Mar, 2008 10:23 am Post subject: |
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Steven- that is correct.These are the town levies, who were rated on their wealth in movables in the Assize of Arms.The townsmen of London had their own army they could produce so many, including men eligible to be knighted,and were, due to their wealth in movables.By EdwardIII's time, for example many of the mayors of London were knights, and backed by the town's wealth Very powerfull.
Ja68ms
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Michael Edelson
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| Posted: Thu 13 Mar, 2008 11:02 am Post subject: |
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| Steven H wrote: | The Medieval era did have a middle class. The big difference between then and now is that in our era around 50% of the population is middle class (in industrialized nations) and less than 2% farms. In the Medieval era the middle class accounted for around 5%-10% of the population and a majority of the people farmed.
Fighting men came exclusively from the middle and upper classes/nobility. England only expected military service from land-owning freemen whose land was worth at least 1 pound (240d). And military service was only required for nobility (who would have to pay scutage if they didn't serve).
Many musters (arrays ?) had far more people show up than were being contracted. The result was that only the properly equipped (and competent, and preferably experienced) people were selected. There was no need for dirt poor folks who could barely afford a sword, so those people weren't contracted.
Cheers,
Steven |
This is very good information, but it is of limited value without accompanying dates. Was this mid 15thC? Early 15thC? 14th?
The price of a sword in 1450 was not the price of a sword in 1250.
New York Historical Fencing Association
www.newyorklongsword.com
Byakkokan Dojo
http://newyorkbattodo.com/
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James R.Fox
Location: Youngstowm,Ohio Joined: 29 Feb 2008
Posts: 253
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| Posted: Thu 13 Mar, 2008 11:14 am Post subject: |
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A good point. Townsmen were being called up based on wealth in movables beginning, I believe, with Edward I's Assize of Arms in 1185, however I need to find copies of the succeding Assize of arms to see how much the rating in wealth in movables changed, and when the requirement that townsmen with a certain wealth in movables were knighted. I know that was in effect by Edward III's time because many of the richest townsmen were knights, espically in London.
Ja68ms
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Steven H
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| Posted: Thu 13 Mar, 2008 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Michael Edelson wrote: |
This is very good information, but it is of limited value without accompanying dates. Was this mid 15thC? Early 15thC? 14th?
The price of a sword in 1450 was not the price of a sword in 1250. |
Valid point Michael.
The above refers specifically to the Hundred Years' War period. However the system was roughly similar from the 12th century through some time in the 15th century.
Also inflation is very low in this period. For instance the price of nails remains constant for several centuries (so much so that their price became the unit of measure for nails). Therefore the price of a sword in 1450 probably was about the same as the price of a sword in 1250.
Kunstbruder - Boston area Historical Combat Study
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Michael Edelson
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| Posted: Thu 13 Mar, 2008 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Steven H wrote: | | Michael Edelson wrote: |
This is very good information, but it is of limited value without accompanying dates. Was this mid 15thC? Early 15thC? 14th?
The price of a sword in 1450 was not the price of a sword in 1250. |
Valid point Michael.
The above refers specifically to the Hundred Years' War period. However the system was roughly similar from the 12th century through some time in the 15th century.
Also inflation is very low in this period. For instance the price of nails remains constant for several centuries (so much so that their price became the unit of measure for nails). Therefore the price of a sword in 1450 probably was about the same as the price of a sword in 1250. |
Thanks, Steven.
I'm not sure I agree about the price of swords, since swords accumulate over time. Many people look at swords as disposable, but this is simply not true. Yes, swords do break, but they also survive in service for very long time. There are accounts of very old swords being shipped for service to fronts in the 15th century wars that had been rehilted. I've been trying to find the source for this, and I'd appreicate any help from someone that knows off the top of their heads.
The point is...the later in time you go, the more swords are floating around. This becomes simple supply/demand.
I'm sure that a high quality, new sword would not be that much different in price in 1450 than 1250, but I'm also certain that a cheap, old sword could be had for pennies in the 15thC, but such swords would be more rare in the 13th.
And that, I think, is the problem with trying to figure out how much swords cost. We can find a ledger that says "Sword, $24.99 with coupon". But what kind of sword was it? Was it a piece of junk, or an heirloom quality weapon?
New York Historical Fencing Association
www.newyorklongsword.com
Byakkokan Dojo
http://newyorkbattodo.com/
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