[Daniel Reid]

Hi everybody, I'm new to this forum and I'm really liking all of the built in info. I've read the 14th century bascinet

article and found it helpful however I am still lacking a date for how early you can place the hounskull visored bascinet.

Opsrey's "Poitiers capture of a king" dates the hounskull as early as 1356, I am not sure if they were really around

this early on.

[Chad Arnow]

Daniel,
Hello and welcome to myArmoury.com. I've moved your question to the Historical Arms Talk forum.

The bascinet article pictures the brass of Sir Hugh Hastings, dated to circa 1347. It clearly shows a visor of some sort:



Also, the Churburg 13 harness and the similar bascinet (once on Churburg, now in the Royal Armouries) have been dated to the 1360s more recently (though many still consider Churburg 13 to be a 1390s assemblage), just after the period in question.

So, I think a date of circa 1356 is not out of the question, though they may not have been common at that point.

[Doug Strong]

There is no evidence to concretely place the conical visored "pig-face" as early as 1356. Bascinets with visors were certainly in use but not necessarily the conical ones. The Scalini dating of the 1360s is a bit dicey. Scalini says "more probably a suit of armour bordered in brass was commissioned in 1361 when Ulrich IV von Matsch was nominated Governor and Burgrave of the Tyrol, and a second around 1366, when he obtained by marriage the title of Count of Kirchberg, Later changed to Count of Matsch in definitive acknowledgement of his new social standing." (p.45) He goes on to suggest that these two purchases make up S13 and that the arms and gauntlets are from the 1366 (wedding) purchase and that the hearts on the arms (often described as "wolf's teeth") are an amatory connection.

He offers no hard evidence other than the fact that he was able to find a record of a purchase of armour with brass in 1361.

I've read the Italian (and German) versions of Scalini's text. He does not elaboarate in his native tongue.