[Kelly Powell]

I know they are on scuti (GO CALONTIR!!!) And I may be mistaken, but on germanic and celtic shields too.....What are the differances in handling as compared to the more often used vertical grip (at least used more often in the sca)?
I could see where using a buckler you would be able to throw quciker punch blocks, if not a quicker jab to the opponents teeth ....But how about in the larger shields? I apologise if this has allready been addressed.
Kelly

[Mikko Kuusirati]

Well, on a round buckler or Viking shield, or other such symmetrical designs, you really can't say that the grip itself is either vertical or horizontal - you can make it either way just by rotating your arm.

[Bram Verbeek]

a scutum is very light to carry with the horizontal grip, and still offers decent protection (by holding your arm outstreched and gripping it), from this position it is hard to get it at a little distance, but with the hand reversed, you can rest your elbow in your hip and have decent protection against arrows.

this only works because of the length of a scutum, a round shield is easier to horzontally carry, and vertically fight with, otherwise you would protect only a small portion of your body

[Kelly Powell]

It just seems a damn akward way to fight with a big shield....Sort of "paint the fence daniel-san"....On the scuti I can imagine that being in fairly close ranks youdo not have to swing it around a lot....just shove stab shove(maybe the occaisonal edge smash to the knees and shins) But the more open fighting style of the germans and frankish and british celts it would seem to be a less then ideal way to grip it.
I guess I'll juhave to try it out for myself ( though being a mutant leftie, it will be probably even weirder)

[Robin Palmer]

Hi Kelly.

On the roman shield the horizontal grip suits the way they were often used which was to plant them in a wall and fight over them a virtical grip would be extremely difficult to use that way. The Celtic shield had vertical grips better suited to the more fluid styler of free fighting they preferred.

[David McElrea]

Robin,

I'm not sure that's the case. While I know you referred to British Celts and there is some debate about how broadly the term "Celt" should be applied, when we look at the Clonoura shield, which is the only complete iron-age shield ever excavated in Ireland, we see a horizontal grip. This is a small rectangular shield-- perfectly suited to the freer style you describe, yet the grip is the same one finds on Roman or Germanic shiedls (c.f. the Hjortspring shield). WHile I could be mistaken, I think British shields were the same.

It's an interesting discussion... I've often wondered at the reasoning behind the horizontal grip myself.

[Kelly Powell]

One of the major drawbacks of sca fighting is the relative lack of offensive shieldwork....sure you can manipulate the other guys shield and weapon, but all in all you are forbidden from using the shields the way they would of been used....When learning to use a mandrake 14" buckler there were several times I had to stop myself from smashing with it.....It just felt so right that the hand started moving before you knew it....The same goes for my23"x20" rectangular center grip (I'll admit this is a sports shield, I was thinking maximum effciency, not any specific period...even though it is really nice looking)...I may have to declare war on my pell and see how heinous I could be using a shield with a horizontal grip.....I can allready see a friggin deadly lunge with the bottom edge.