Identification help sought -- myArmoury.com

Rex Roae · Posted: Mon 25 Feb, 2008 3:14 pm Post subject: Identification help sought

IMy brother and me have 2 swords we know very little about. I did speak to an armory expert from the Smithsonian about the 1st sword a couple yrs back. He believed the sword dated somewhere between 1490-1550. Said the hilt was sharkskin and the origin was probably Germany. He was not able to determine the mark. Very nice fellow but he seemed to have a full workload so I didn't want to bother him again.

The 2nd sword I've researched but haven't been able to come up with much info. Any identification help would be much appreciated.

1st sword:
Photobucket image

2nd sword:
Photobucket image

Christopher Gregg · Posted: Mon 25 Feb, 2008 3:26 pm Post subject: Sword identification

Greetings Rex, welcome to the forums!

I'd hazard a guess that the first sword is indeed German, from about the mid 16th century and looks to be a horseman's sword (Is that a single-edged blade I see, and a thumb ring on the back of the sweep?). A really cool sword!

The second sword i have no idea, but I'd be inclined to guess it was Indonesian, or perhaps Philipino. from about late 19th, early 20th century. Anybody else care to have a go?

Rex Roae · Posted: Mon 25 Feb, 2008 4:27 pm Post subject:

Christopher, thanks for the info.

The 1st sword is 47" long and is double edged but one side is only edged halfway up.

Here's a couple more pics if it helps.

Photobucket image

Shahril Dzulkifli · Posted: Tue 26 Feb, 2008 6:34 pm Post subject: Re: Identification help sought

Rex, I have a suggestion -
Do you have any photos of the 2nd sword, especially when it is unsheathed?

Allan Senefelder · Industry Professional

My vote on the second blade is just possibly Mexican/South American or Indonesian or Chinese(sp). Seeing the blade would help. Regarding the first sword, GEEZ your lucky whatta nice blade! I remember something about the crescent suns stamped on the blade being Eastern European ie, Polish, Hungarian ect. although you can find the mark on alot of German blades. The mark was often copied on later Sudanese Kaskara blades localy manufactured, harkening back to when European blade were used for these Sudanese swords. This mark also turns up on Indo-Persian Farangi swords, Farangi being the Indian word for foreigner (sp) refering to the fact that these swords were made using imported European blades.

Rex Roae · Posted: Wed 27 Feb, 2008 7:06 am Post subject:

Allen, some really great info on the first sword.

Here's some pics of the 2nd sword:

Photobucket image

Allan Senefelder · Industry Professional

Something about this sword just feels South American to me, one of the simple D guard swords made for infantry use in the 18th and 19th centuries although the what is either ivory of bone handle is a little unusual. Possibly a privately commissioned sword for persoanl use in that style if i'm correct in my feeling of the swords origin.

Sean Flynt · Posted: Wed 27 Feb, 2008 8:39 am Post subject:

Beautiful 16th c. German horseman's sword! There are two good examples in The Wallace Collection, but links to the WC pages don't work. You'd have to go the site and search for "swords" to find them.

Windlass made an attempt at this design, but blew the pommel (too small). Too bad, because I love these!

http://www.reliks.com/merchant.ihtml?pid=2428

Robin Palmer · Posted: Wed 27 Feb, 2008 11:19 am Post subject:

Hi Rex

First swords a beauty the second isn't quiet right blade looks fine the guard seems off to me a bit to thin I could be wrong but it looks as if someone re hilted an old blade the guard just doesn't look up to the job.

Jonathan Hopkins · Posted: Wed 27 Feb, 2008 11:28 am Post subject:

I agree with Allan's assessment of the second sword. It definitely has a Latin American feel to it.

Jonathan

Morgan Butler · Posted: Wed 27 Feb, 2008 11:43 am Post subject:

Yeah, when I first saw it I thought it was Mexican. But perhaps it is from further down south. I've read that the gaucho's of the Pampas sometimes carried swords.

Shahril Dzulkifli · Posted: Wed 27 Feb, 2008 6:04 pm Post subject: Identification help sought

Gauchos carrying swords, Morgan? Sounds a bit odd to me but as far as I know they fought the Spaniards using spears, knives and perhaps firearms. To Rex, this gaucho sword has a huge blade.

Chase S-R · Posted: Wed 27 Feb, 2008 7:02 pm Post subject:

Beautiful Backsword!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
May I ask where you aquired it? could you say how the second sword balances and where you got it it would help in determining if it was re-hilted and where it came from.

Danny Grigg · Posted: Thu 28 Feb, 2008 12:08 am Post subject:

Could the 2nd sword be an Espada Ancha??

http://www.elpalacio.org/articles/espada.pdf
http://www.vikingsword.com/ethsword/espadaan/index.html
http://www.geocities.com/the_tarins@sbcglobal...words.html

Danny

Allan Senefelder · Industry Professional

Danny, exactly the sort of sword I was thinking of!

Danny Grigg · Posted: Thu 28 Feb, 2008 11:16 pm Post subject:

Another link re Espada Anchas

http://therionarms.com/articles/index.shtml

About 3/4's down the page entitled "Swords of Old Mexico"

Danny

Henrik Zoltan Toth · Posted: Thu 28 Feb, 2008 11:53 pm Post subject:

According to the toothed crescents the first sword (and You:-) has a Genoese blade. Congrats!!!

Zoltán

Rex Roae · Posted: Fri 29 Feb, 2008 4:17 am Post subject:

Danny, great eye. The 2nd sword is most likely Mexican.

I had received it from my grandfather many years ago because of my interest in military collectibles. He was an antique auctioneer so the sword's origin was unknown. It's wonderful finally finding out some info.

Henrik, you say the 1st sword is Genoese. Could you expand on that?

Henrik Zoltan Toth · Posted: Fri 29 Feb, 2008 7:23 am Post subject:

Hello

Here is an exemple of a genoese blade and genoese marks.

The picture of the sabre is from a weapon-museum catalog from Eger, the marks from the book "Régi fegyverekről" ("About antient weapons"),Halmágyi-Riedel, 1986, p. 138.

Zoltán

Rex Roae · Posted: Fri 29 Feb, 2008 8:26 am Post subject:

Henrik, thank you so much.

Even the armory expert at the Smithsonian wasn't able to identify that mark.

Rex