[Drake Dunivan]

I have watched this board.forum off and on for a bit, but I have been hesitant to take my time to ask this question(s).

I am looking to put together a 13th C. German armour set. I know a lot of people say choose a time period of 20 years and work on that as thing changed fairly quickly through the years. So I guess I need some guidance on where to start. Below is of a list of things that interested me but may conflict in time.

Basic:
Arming Cap
Aketon: Sleeves separate pieces
Inside of the elbows has an oval cut-out for movement
Padded “collar”
Chausses
Turnsole shoes

Amour
“Onion Shape” or “low point” Bascinet
with Verveilles
mail Avetail with Mantle
Besahgews
Laced to the Aketon under the point of the shoulders
Free-hanging
½ leather ½ steel or 2-piece steel vambracers
Hourglass gauntlets
7-piece breast plate
Full steel leg harness
Fluted lobed fans
3-piece articulation
½ Greaves


I am sure I am missing several things (elbow cups, cod piece etc etc) But thats what I like but not necessarily what I would end up with.

Any help or pointers in the right direction would be great.

and thanks for your time,.
drake dunivan

[Randy W]

a period Osprey book should give you some good ideas since you have the period and nationality clearly identified

[Elling Polden]

From your description, you are looking at a 14th c. kit rather than a 13th.
A typical 13th c. kit would be full mail armour, integrated mail mittens, barrel greathelm, and at best a coat of plates....

[Jared Smith]

[Chuck Russell]

sounds like its the end of the 14th century from the description of his gear.

[Drake Dunivan]

[Scott Eschenbrenner]

If by 'gothic' you mean the style of armour as later historians described it, that would be late 15th century. During the 'transitional' period, which it looks like you're interested in, plate armour is a bit simpler in form without the extensive fluting, piercing, and shapes that characterize gothic harnesses. Otherwise, the term 'gothic' can be applied to many things from before and after the period, from architecture to fonts used in manuscripts.

If you'd like to stick with the late-14th century, you might also want to add a mail haubergeon to your kit. I think most would agree that it was pretty ubiquitous for men-at-arms of that era.

What will the kit be used for? That would help with making appropriate recommendations by the people here who have assembled their own reproduction harnesses (myself not among them).

Good luck!

[M. Eversberg II]

Attempt to invest in a copy of "Arms and Armour of the Medieval Knight". It will help.

Agreed, it is a 14th century kit from the sounds of it; I figure you half-minded it and where thinking 1300's but it came out as 13th century.

M.

[Sean Smith]

Am I missing the rest of the arm armour? Besegews and vambraces, but no mention of rebrace, spaulder, pauldron or elbow. Something tells me that Besegews were developed after all the other things, but 14th cent. isn't my forte.

For true 13th century, the easiest place to look is the Maciejowski Bible. Dated to between 1240-1260.

[Randall Moffett]

If you are looking for a well dresses late 13th century knight you would likely have a padded garment, mail hauberk and likley chausses, padded cuisses, polyerns, perhaps armoured surcoat great helm or early round top great helm- possibly with a visor and an arming carp with coif )mail hood), do not forget the shield. You could have small couters and shoudler defences as well as gauntlets but these appear rather rare still. The gauntlets would be of scale or small plate construction I assume but as far as I know there is only a few depicted in artwork.

Early 14th till about 1320- about the same as before but more likely to have gaunts and some form of arm armour. By about this tiem the coat of plates are very popular. The bascinet is in use and growing in popularity along side the old great helms and round top great helms that are still the main knightly helmet.
Post 1320 it seems limb armour becomes more common for knights for both arms and legs. The COP is a must for any knight really though there may perhaps be some lagging behind few knightly inventories lack one or more. The bascinet really takes off from 1320. Great helms linger on though. The longer into the 14th you go the more likely you will have additions of plates. Shoulder defences also become more common from this time on.

Sometime after 1340-1360 the one piece breastplate appears. around 1350-1360 the hourglass gaunts appear as well. the move toward more plate contiues. By 1350 the great helm and its round topped version are now second place to the bascinet though there may be variation to this and in the tourney they hang on for some time.

Hope this brief and likely overly general summary helps!

RPM

[Drake Dunivan]

Randall and others,

Thanks for your time in helping me and pointing out reference books, I should have them within the week. With everyones help and pointers, it appears that I am looking at late 14th C armour and by Randall general over view its closer to 1350-1360 time frame, but could go later (have to look at some of those books)


drake

[Randall Moffett]

might be good to take a look at effigies for one that you like the look and use the time fram it is from as a guide. This will avoid making a mutt knight wearing armour exclusive or common in one place but not others.

Here is a good resource of effigies.

http://www.gothiceye.com/pictures.asp?categoryID=3

Thank goodness they are still up!

RPM

[Ed Toton]

This isn't in English, but the pictures are great if you wanted to aim for a 1280-1320 time frame (I know you said you're going later, but just as a reference point):

http://www.historiavivens1300.at/biblio/ritter.htm

[Randall Moffett]

Ed,

That is a nice looking site. What a cool harness that gent has.

RPM

[Allan Senefelder]

Biga!@ gash in the great helm under his right arm in the fifth photo, the one of the right. Wonder how he got that?

[Chuck Russell]

[Allan Senefelder]

I noticed that I wonder if the damaged one is just for effect?

[Doug Strong]

I don't believe it is damaged. The original helm form Bolzano, Italy in the Castel Sant' Angelo, Rome, upon which that one is based, has a pair of offset holes just where you see the "gash" What appears to be a cut is probably lacing for the lining. Look at the side seam there is another "gash" there too. In total there should be a pair of offset holes at each side as well as the front and the rear.