[Chad Arnow]

I'm a little intrigued by the new Valiant Armoury Actium gladius, designed by Gus Trim and Christian Fletcher. To my untrained eye, it looks pretty good, but I'd love to hear thoughts on its historical accuracy from the gladius lovers out there.



http://www.christianfletcher.com/Christian_Fl...ctium.html

[Jeremiah Swanger]

Oooh...

... would that be considered a Gladius Hispaniensis? I've really wanted somebody to make a good one for some time...

[Darrin Hughes]

Hi Chad.

This is very attractive but I'm not sure about just how accurate it is. I see from the link that this is being marketed specifically as a Mainz pattern Gladius. Now for a Mainz this does look a bit narrow in the waist, and whilst we all know that the Gladius was a stabbing sword, the point looks just a little too long. All in all it looks a little too slimline for a Mainz Gladius. The double fuller is a little odd as well. I've seen these on later period Spathas, but never on a Mainz. If these are from an historical example then I would be very interested in seeing it.
The thing that really struck me though, is the scabbard suspension. I've been doing some research on these recently, as I had a scabbard made for my Mainz last year and I've been looking for the correct method of suspension. This looks like it is set up to be worn at an angle on the left side in a medieval fashion. However, the Gladius was always worn on the right hand side in a vertical position. The best form of suspension that I have seen for these scabbards involves the use of all four rings, with the baldric passing through the top ring, looping around the scabbard using the bottom rings, and then passing back up through the top ring on the opposite side. I have seen modern baldric designs where the strap splits to go down to the four rings seperately, in a similar fashion to this one. However this doesn't hold the scabbard as securely in the vertical position as the method that I have described, and probably over-complicates what is a fairly simple system.
Personally, I would happily defer to anyone who has studied these swords in depth, as I have probably researched the scabbards more than the swords themselves, but my initial opinion is that this is nice, it just isn't right.
I'm including a picture of my Mainz Gladius by Albion for comparison. From what I've seen this is far closer to the original. Perhaps Valiant should market their sword as the Mainz Sport

Cheers,
Darrin.

[Mike Arledge]

I'd agree with Darrin on almost every point. Its very attractive, but not the best historical replica" Will I buy it? Very likely though!

The fuller thing is an interesting problem. You can find similar fullers on Patrick Barta pieces, so I wonder if anyone has seen them on extant finds?

I think for the money, the suspension issues Darrin mentioned are easy to overcome with some modifications.

[Sonny Suttles]

I cannot speak for Gus and Christian on the historical accuracy of the piece. I will say that I have left the design for the most part up to these fine gentlemen. As for the Actium. I believe we are focusing on Historical plausibility. The Signature line is a mode for the masses to experience an Gus Trim Blade that has been modified by the Creative genius of Christian Fletcher. If the piece is functional and pleasing to the eye and has mass appeal to the sword buying market then I see no need to restrict the swords for the Signature line.

This may sound funny but the only reason that there may not have been a sword like this then was because Christian wasn't born back then. Had he been a Sword smith then, This may very well have been the period piece we would be referring too. We believe that this piece could have been made back then. For what its worth.

Sonny

[Mike Arledge]

I think all of that is very fair Sonny.

As far as Chad's original post goes though, I suspect that while he is very interested in the design of the Actium, in particular, gladii are held under close scrutiny by collectors largely due to the reenactment community, who really try to nail down accuracy and homogenity. It is hard to find good gladii that are one historically plasuible, two come with a proper scabbard and three, don't break the bank. I think the Actium is a good piece. My only suggestion might be to do without the fullers though, so the reenactor crowd will have more reason to buy it. That really might be a deal breaker with them if I was to guess.

[Christian Fletcher]

For the suspension I've deferred to the expertise of the various reenactment groups featured in Peterson's "The Roman Legions Recreated in Colour Photograps", where it is used in several examples. I've rigged it for an officer's left side but it can be re-knotted for an enlisted soldier's right side, allowing the end user to decide their own role.

What I wanted to achieve with the Actium was something a bit different from all the other Mainz pattern gladii already available out there.

[Matthew Amt]

Avete!

There is certainly no historical basis for the fullers. The blade outline looks wrong to me, just too narrow, with the point too short in relation to the rest. The scabbard is nicely done, though I'm not certain about the decorative motif. Good hilt!

The use of 3 scabbard rings with the shoulder baldric was very common, and the sword does hang vertically. However, it was probably more common for the Mainz to hang from the waist belt, with some sort of suspension (never shown clearly in artwork, of course!) that used all 4 rings.

Obviously, these guys don't do bad craftsmanship, but I don't think that blade is going to attract anyone looking for a historically accurate piece.

Valete,

Matthew

[Anders Backlund]

Well, I'm no expert on Roman weapons, but I know what I like. And that there is a beautiful sword.

[Shayan G]

[Michael Edelson]

Why incorporate a feature that is either very rare, contested or questionable on a production sword in the first place? It's not like the sword needs those fullers or the extra waisted shape.

It is a beautiful sword, with a beautiful scabbard, but for for those looking for a reenactment sword, this may not do, even if it is accurate (rare types tend to be frowned upon in reenactment). It could have served both purposes and been just as beautiful.

Besides, with that blade shape, there is no way the scabbard is going to fit my Allectus. Foiled again.
(I'll probably buy one anyway, though)

[Sonny Suttles]

No disrepect to anyone here who is commited to only Historically exact swords, but I have to ask myself the question that if we all only made historically acurate pieces then eventual want we all be making different levels or versions of the same thing. Had the Gun never been invented and we all still used swords then would not the evolution of the design of swords not also continued????
For what it's worth

Sonny

[Christopher Gregg]

Sonny wrote,

"No disrepect to anyone here who is committed to only Historically exact swords, but I have to ask myself the question that if we all only made historically acurate pieces then eventual want we all be making different levels or versions of the same thing."

I agree, Sonny. I have to think that all the Albion fans out there would also have to kind of agree, since many of their designs are historically inspired, too. If modern swordsmiths are going to essentially carry on the noble art of the creation of accuratly made swords, then we, as collectors and enthusiasts, are going to have to allow a certain amount of artistic license when new yet historically-based designs are submitted for our enjoyment. Diversity is the spice of any hobby!

[Anders Backlund]

[Jared Smith]

I would tend to side with artistic license as well. I allow for these creations as "historically plausible" and they don't have to be dull or common place to believe one might have existed. I also expect variations to be functional, not detracting from the handling or integrity of the device.

If named after a specific battle, typology, or hero's sword, and there is a real surviving specimen to compare with, then I figure it should conform reasonably well. In this case, the combined cross section and fullers look "odd" to me. I would not easily match it with any late Roman or early migration era artifact. I won't go so far as to say the fullers look bad. Strictly as personal taste, they just don't seem to enhance it much for me cosmetically. I doubt from their looks that they make much of a handling improvement functionally. I would like it more without the fullers, which probably are not cheap to produce.

Sans fullers, I would consider it a really nice sword. The suspension could be easily changed to suit tastes.

[Michael Edelson]

[Joe Fults]

The big question probably has to come down to how much of the total sales potential was actually going to go to a reenactment participant even if the product was perfectly historical? Talk about a niche of a niche market. Not exactly the sort of consumer group that production anythings are usually aimed at.

I think this is a nice design that should sell very well into the sword hobby mass market (such as it is). If it achieves stated production, design and cost objectives it could redefine the market. Something that I'm confident the creators were aware of when starting this project.

[Chase S-R]

Now im not talking about the gladius specifically but many swords and armour i have found cannot be ruled out as innacurate i used to be musch more skeptical until i read sword in hand by ewart oakeshott he mentions that what we have is only a fraction of whtat existed and our rules are to narrow if we find a sword that doesnt fit into our mold then historiens reject it as a fake even if it may not be many swords were reused modified and changed and cannot be written off as fakes. there are great varriants in swords and armour that may have existed it must be proved wrong rather than right. i do agree that reenactment should be general
for reenactment NO
for a sword that is pleasing and MAY (though unlikley) have existed for pleasure thanYES
but my advice buy an albion there is a nice one on ebay right now i believe for reenactment
AND buy this one for fun

[Chad Arnow]

[Michael Edelson]