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Forum Index > Off-topic Talk > pattern welding temperature Reply to topic
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Naythan Goron




Location: ON, Canada
Joined: 03 Feb 2008

Posts: 40

PostPosted: Mon 04 Feb, 2008 4:39 pm    Post subject: pattern welding temperature         Reply with quote

Hello
I'm a little new hear and I'm not quite sure this topic has been posted of not, but all well I'll post it any way.

Me and one of my best friends and fellow assistant were having an argument today about what temperature is appropriate for forge welding. we argued about it for half the day and finally we went looking on the internet and we both got different answers. Mine said from 2300* Fahrenheit to 2400* and his were much lower in the 1700-1900* range. so i guess we both might be wrong but id rather ask for help in this matter rather then putting more strain on our friendship then there already is.
so if anyone has any knowledge about the temp for forge welding could you pleas tell me if you might know?

Sincerely
Naythan Goron

times come and go but the blacksmith's spirit will live on.
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Jared Smith




Location: Tennessee
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
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Posts: 1,532

PostPosted: Mon 04 Feb, 2008 5:31 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

What you are trying to do is different than melting the steel (2600 deg F and above.) Pattern welding with lots of folds will take more time, and many knife makers and pattern welders have web sites about how they do it. Several use lower heat (2100 F) to avoid burning the carbon out of the steel. I don't consider there to be a single answer. If you happen to have that $15,000 power hammer and want to get it done as quickly as possible to avoid incomplete welds.... you might do it pretty fast and hot. If you are like me, and will have to draw it out by hand over a period of a few hours... you might want to avoid the high heats.
Absence of evidence is not necessarily evidence of absence!
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Kenneth Scott





Joined: 14 Apr 2007

Posts: 8

PostPosted: Mon 04 Feb, 2008 6:28 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

http://www.anvilfire.com/iForge/ wrote:
Judging the proper temperature is the hard part. . . Bill Epps has discribed it as the color of melted butter. White hot is TOO hot and the flux will have boiled off and the steel will be sparking vigorously. For mild steel the proper welding heat will have a few sparks or none at all. For wrought or pure iron it is hotter and there can be quite a few sparks. As the carbon content increases the forge welding temperature DECREASES. By as much as 300-400F. Under the right circumstances it can be over a 1000F lower than the melting point but this is not the normal situation when forge welding.


It really completely depends on your steel alloy. I've only done a few forge welds, but the mild steel needed to be recognizably hotter than the high carbon alloy I tried.
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Naythan Goron




Location: ON, Canada
Joined: 03 Feb 2008

Posts: 40

PostPosted: Tue 05 Feb, 2008 11:08 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

thank you Jared.
i thought the temp was in the 2000 deg range but i never thought that it would be that close to 2000 deg.
I prefer to do everything by hand or mostly everything and since time is of little concern i probably wont be buying that $15 000 power hammer ive had my eye on for some time.

thank you Kenneth
the help ive tried forge welding many times before but i never got it to work and now i know why the color was off thank you agean

times come and go but the blacksmith's spirit will live on.
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Jared Smith




Location: Tennessee
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Tue 05 Feb, 2008 3:00 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

If it does not bother you, you might consider training two assistants. Some of the knife makers that really love their power hammers also give hand worked demonstrations at fairs. To avoid excessive numbers of heats when working by hand, they will get one person to hold the steel, and set two strikers working in an alternating rhythm. This does not have to take several hours to accomplish. I suspect the diagonal peen hammers could be worth while for this sort of thing.
Absence of evidence is not necessarily evidence of absence!
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Doug Lester




Location: Decatur, IL
Joined: 12 Dec 2007

Posts: 167

PostPosted: Tue 05 Feb, 2008 6:57 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I've successfully welded some 1080 cable at between 2000 and 2100 degrees F. Some people commented to me that that seemed a couple of hundred degrees low. I have read comments from one person on a knife making forum that he is able to weld at bringht cherry which I think is in the range of 1700-1800 degrees. However, it is a little tricky to judge the temperature of a piece of metal by it's color because the ambient lighting effects it so much. What looks like bright cherry in bright light may look like orange in subdued light. There is also more that just temperature involved too. There has to be a good clean surface protected from oxidation by the flux and the surfaces have to be brought into close enough proximatry for molicules of iron from the austinite in one piece of steel to jump over and link with austinite in the other piece of steel and in enough numbers to form a weld. This can be done with a hammer or with a press.
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