Agincourt, Landgraf, or ... Kingmaker? -- myArmoury.com

Jody A

Ok, this is my first posting, so please be gentle. I have been reading myArmoury.com for years, and registered last fall. My first and only sword is the Albion Knight, which I have had for over a year, and it just keeps getting better. I don't have any training, so my interest is historical - the more accurate and representative the better. I handle the Knight regularly, but with alot of caution, respect, and really slowly. The Knight matches my time period of interest perfectly but, since I was a boy, I've always wanted a bastard sword ...

So I need some advice. Up until the release of the Kingmaker, I thought my next sword was going to be the Agincourt or Landgraf. Although the Knight is my era, I have begun to be fascinated with the swords that were deveoped to counter the increasingly more effective plate armour of the day. So I like the Agincourt for its honesty of purpose and what I would think would be brutal effectiveness as a plate cracker and thruster, and the Landgraf for its "transitional" look and feel and unique and appealing blade, guard, and hilt design (a Crusade buff here). But the Kingmaker has stolen my heart (against all reason - single hander type XVIII's from this period have not interested me before), and I am sorely tempted to get it, particularly since Albion is only making 100 of them ...

I have searched and read as much as I can find on these 3 swords, and I know they are all very different, but I really like the way some of the members provide advice in other comparative threads and I wondered if you would be interested in providing me with your advice/thoughts? I should say that, in addition to its historical accuracy/significance, I do like the aesthetics of a sword, and that is as big a factor for me as the performance (which I have to take your views on, since I couldn't thrust or cut my way out of a wet paper bag) ...

So ... Agincourt, Landgraf, or Kingmaker ...?? Blush

Thanks, Jody.

Greyson Brown · Posted: Mon 21 Jan, 2008 9:02 am Post subject:

Jody,

Welcome to myArmoury.com. I am afraid I can't help you much with the Kingmaker, but I own both a Landgraf and an Agincourt. I'm not entirely certain which aspects of these swords you are interested in, but I find it very hard to pick one over the other. Visually, the Landgraf is obviously the fancier sword, but for me it is on the edge of being too fancy. The Agincourt is still visually appealing but is more subtle thanks to the shape of the guard and so on. I still think the Agincourt would have looked slightly better without the recess in the pommel, but it's not that big a deal to me.

As far as handling goes, I think the Landgraf is faster, but they are both likely to feel very heavy when compared to your Knight (I have the SL Knightly sword, so I've noticed that myself). Even though the blade on the Agincourt is narrow, it is also very thick, so that particular sword is noticably heavier when you pick it up. Once in motion, though, you don't notice the weight all that much.

I have more luck cutting with the Landgraf, but, let's face it, neither sword is really intended as a cutter. Both thrust equally well. The Landgraf might be slightly more comfortable because of the grip diameter (that grip is a touch bigger around than the Agincourt, but not by much), but that is something I really have to be focussing on to notice.

I hope that helps you a bit; I certainly can't say buy one over the other. You can see that my solution to your dilema was to buy both (and the only reason I don't have the Kingmaker too is because it doesn't fit my period of interest).

-Grey

Jody A · Posted: Mon 21 Jan, 2008 2:58 pm Post subject:

Thanks Greyson! This is exactly the kind of comparison I was hoping for, from someone who already owns these swords and who knows how to handle them. I read alot of your postings and always learn alot from them. Anyone else out there with 1, 2, or maybe even 3 of these swords who might venture their opionions/thoughts??

(I know Albion must love this stuff, particularly at the end where we conclude the only solution is to get all of them one day because we can't decide ... Happy

).

Thanks, Jody A.

Michael Eging · Posted: Mon 21 Jan, 2008 7:29 pm Post subject:

I have the Landgraf, which I have also posted pictures of on this site. I, in particular, like the thrusting ability of the sword. Also, I have the gothic custom hilt and scabbard from Christian Fletcher. Ultimately, it will be a personal choice. But half the fun is figuring out which one.

Good luck!! Cool

Nathan Keysor · Posted: Tue 22 Jan, 2008 6:24 am Post subject:

I have the Agincourt and the Kingmaker and really like both. The Agincourt is a bigger sword overall but handles beautifully. The point is trully scary. The Kingmaker is a beautiful weapon as well but it is lighter. Depending on the conditions the Agincourt is the sword I'd take "into battle". It also reminds me of the Black Prince's sword which I've always been a fan of.

Ed Toton · Posted: Wed 23 Jan, 2008 11:29 am Post subject:

I have the Landgraf as well. I can't specifically compare it to the Kingmaker or Agincourt since I don't have those. I'll point out that it seems to me to be a bit more of a cutter than some of the more thrusting oriented swords, such as the Talhoffer, which I do have. In comparison to the Talhoffer, which is a scary-tipped thrusting sword, the Landgraf is 5 oz lighter and yet feels a little heavier. It's nearly as agile, and when you look at how the fuller and blade geometry is arranged, it's clear that it puts a healthy portion of the mass where it needs to be for making decisive cuts. It feels very "confident and decisive", I would say. I generally prefer very light and fast swords, but the Landgraf feels very good to me despite feeling a little heavier, due to the handling characteristics.

Jody A · Posted: Thu 24 Jan, 2008 4:42 pm Post subject:

Jared Smith · Posted: Thu 24 Jan, 2008 4:58 pm Post subject:

I own both the Sempach (kind of sister sword/ blade to the Landgraf) and the Albion Knight. I have not tried the Kingmaker, but think you will find it very similar if not more nimble than the Knight. We are sort of comparing apples and oranges here (some more effective two handed, others probably used to maximum effect just one handed.) For a sword that I wanted to use one handed I would go with the Kingmaker. If I wanted to use hand and a half grip, no shield when on foot, I would go with the Landgraf.

Chad Arnow · myArmoury Team

Jody A · Posted: Thu 24 Jan, 2008 7:40 pm Post subject:

Steve Grisetti · Posted: Sat 26 Jan, 2008 1:19 pm Post subject:

I have a Landgraf, and love the feel and aesthetics of the piece. I don't really care for the Agincourt. I would love to have a Kingmaker. I think that, when you come right down to it, it is just a matter of your personal taste. I'm sure you would be happy with any of the three.

Jody A · Posted: Sat 26 Jan, 2008 1:43 pm Post subject:

Micheal - I should clarify my last post - I love that hilt on your Landgraf - its just that my historic interest takes me a little earlier in the century ... but that wire looks so good against the pommel it has me wondering about another question ... does anyone have thoughts on a full wire grip on the Landgraf ..?? Historically accurate ..? I don't know alot about the historical accuracy of wire grips in general, so if someone could point me to another thread on that (I couldn't find one) that would be appreciated ...

Craig Peters · Posted: Sat 26 Jan, 2008 4:35 pm Post subject:

There are some swords with full wire wrap grips. However, it's not very common at all to my knowledge. I personally prefer regular grips to wire wrap ones, because I find the wire becomes awkward to grip if you're sweating, and leather feels better on the hands.