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Sam N.
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 Posted: Sun 16 Dec, 2007 2:09 pm Post subject: The Works of Pietro Monte |
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Pietro Monte seems like a fascinating master, since he is wedged right in between the medieval and renaissance. Does anyone know of any translated versions of his Colecteanea? Strangely, It seems that he hasn't drawn much attention from the HEMA crowd. Why is that?
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Bill Grandy
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Sun 16 Dec, 2007 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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I believe Steve Hick has been working on it, but I'm not so certain about a translation. I've only learned second hand information, and Monte seems fascinating.
HistoricalHandcrafts.com
-Inspired by History, Crafted by Hand
"For practice is better than artfulness. Your exercise can do well without artfulness, but artfulness is not much good without the exercise.” -anonymous 15th century fencing master, MS 3227a
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Steven Reich
Location: Arlington, VA Joined: 28 Oct 2003
Posts: 237
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| Posted: Mon 17 Dec, 2007 6:10 am Post subject: Re: The Works of Pietro Monte |
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| Sam N. wrote: | | Strangely, It seems that he hasn't drawn much attention from the HEMA crowd. Why is that? |
Because it is in Latin--and not Classical Latin--so very few in the community have the skills to work with that.
Steve
Founder of NoVA-Assalto, an affiliate of the HEMA Alliance
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Craig Peters
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| Posted: Tue 18 Dec, 2007 8:59 pm Post subject: Re: The Works of Pietro Monte |
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| Steven Reich wrote: | | Sam N. wrote: | | Strangely, It seems that he hasn't drawn much attention from the HEMA crowd. Why is that? |
Because it is in Latin--and not Classical Latin--so very few in the community have the skills to work with that.
Steve |
Yeah, but there's a bunch of people working on MS I.33, and it's not classical Latin either. I'm not sure why there aren't more people interested in Monte. I think that perhaps like Vadi, his work tends to be neglected because he's overshadowed by Fiore, but that's just my guess.
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Steven Reich
Location: Arlington, VA Joined: 28 Oct 2003
Posts: 237
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| Posted: Wed 19 Dec, 2007 5:57 am Post subject: Re: The Works of Pietro Monte |
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| Craig Peters wrote: | | Yeah, but there's a bunch of people working on MS I.33, and it's not classical Latin either. I'm not sure why there aren't more people interested in Monte. I think that perhaps like Vadi, his work tends to be neglected because he's overshadowed by Fiore, but that's just my guess. |
But compare the amount of text between the two. Monte probably has twenty times (or more) as much text as I.33 (it is about 112 full, printed pages of Latin). Also, Monte has no figures, so it is somewhat lessy "sexy." Personally, I'd love to see a translation of it, but I only know one or two people (which probably means there are three or four in the community) who have the skill to do a meaningful translation rather than just a gibberish pseudo-"literal" translation (which would be nearly worthless), and translating is a laborious and thankless job.
Steve
Founder of NoVA-Assalto, an affiliate of the HEMA Alliance
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Brian Hunt
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| Posted: Sun 23 Dec, 2007 11:33 am Post subject: |
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Where would one obtain a copy of Monte from? I have been interested in this manuscript for a long time but I haven't been able to find a digital copy. I do fairly well with Latin. Well enough that I can translate the latin verses contained in Paulus Hector Mair's works and would love to look at Monte.
thanks in advance for any answers.
Brian Hunt
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Greg Mele
Industry Professional
Location: Chicago, IL USA Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Posts: 356
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| Posted: Wed 26 Dec, 2007 8:24 am Post subject: |
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| Brian Hunt wrote: | Where would one obtain a copy of Monte from? I have been interested in this manuscript for a long time but I haven't been able to find a digital copy. I do fairly well with Latin. Well enough that I can translate the latin verses contained in Paulus Hector Mair's works and would love to look at Monte.
thanks in advance for any answers.
Brian Hunt |
Brian,
There are two different works by Monte. Collectanea is in the Huntingdon library in CA, but can be hard to get a copy of without academic credentials. His wrestling work is digitized at the University of Chicago (sorry, I don't have the name to hand).
Part of the trick with Monte is that you are going to need late 15th c Latin, as well as Italian and Spanish to get through it - as his technical vocabulary borrows freely from both languages, sometimes then "Latinizing" the words further. It's much more difficult than the clean, Humanist Latin of Paulus Hector Mair. But, the more folks making the attempt, the better, so have at!
Greg
Greg Mele
Chicago Swordplay Guild
www.chicagoswordplayguild.com
www.freelanceacademypress.com
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Brian Hunt
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| Posted: Thu 27 Dec, 2007 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Greg,
thanks for the reply and the warning on the verses. Knowing in advance that he borrows from Italian and Spanish then Latinizes it will help track down obscure words and phrases.
happy holidays
Brian Hunt
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Greg Mele
Industry Professional
Location: Chicago, IL USA Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Posts: 356
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| Posted: Fri 28 Dec, 2007 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Brian Hunt wrote: | Hi Greg,
thanks for the reply and the warning on the verses. Knowing in advance that he borrows from Italian and Spanish then Latinizes it will help track down obscure words and phrases.
happy holidays
Brian Hunt |
You're welcome Brian. Also, Marc Gener, I believe, has been working with a Spanish Ms that is believed to possibly be a draft of the martial section of the Collectanea - you might want to contact him.
Greg Mele
Chicago Swordplay Guild
www.chicagoswordplayguild.com
www.freelanceacademypress.com
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Jeffrey Hedgecock
Industry Professional
Location: Ramona CA USA Joined: 22 Jan 2004
Posts: 129
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| Posted: Thu 17 Jan, 2008 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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Dr. Jeffrey Forgeng is working on a translation of both Monte's Collectanea and De Dignoscendis, though he doesn't have anything ready for publication or distribution. He says I'll get to see something when he comes out to our joust in April. He especially wants to discuss horse matters with me and the rest of the crew at the event to get our take on his translation, since he's not a "horse guy".
Most of you should be aware that J. Forgeng is the associate curator at the Higgins Armory Museum in Worcester MA, and has also produced a translation of the RA MS I-33.
(Sorry it's taken me a while to announce this, I had to check with Jeffrey to make sure it was ok to do so, but I've known about it for a while now.)
Cheers,
Jeffrey Hedgecock
Historic Enterprises, Inc.
WorldJoust Tournaments™
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Benjamin H. Abbott
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| Posted: Sun 27 Jul, 2014 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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Is there any new word on transcription and/or translation projects? I'd particularly love to see a transcription of Monte's Spanish manuscript, but that might be too much to ask.
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This is a standard topic