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Jay Barron
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 Posted: Thu 08 Nov, 2007 3:21 pm Post subject: Looking for help regarding scabbard for migration sword |
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Kevin Cashen is currently working on a migration era sword for me and I am hoping someone could give me some pics or drawings of the historically appropriate scabbard. The sword is a late 5th/early 6th c. River Scheldt find and is pictured below (sorry I don't have a pic of the full sword)... Also, I could use some opinions on what the grip material might be. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Constant and true.
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Jeroen Zuiderwijk
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Fri 09 Nov, 2007 12:41 am Post subject: |
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Hey wow, that's a sword that definately deserves a good reproduction! I'm sure I've got some information about scabbards around that time. I'll see if I can dig something up. Just curious, what materials will the hilt be made from?
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G Ezell
Industry Professional
Location: North Alabama Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 235
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| Posted: Sun 11 Nov, 2007 12:44 am Post subject: |
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Very nice sword, I'm not familiar with that particular one. The handle does appear organic (with a big crack in one area), most of the ones I've seen from this time period were handled in bronze. I'm guessing that's a horn grip, from the looks of it, but more likely it's wood. Kevin does some fine work, and I can't wait to see what he does with this one.
Instead of re-posting the information, I thought I'd refer you to this thread:
http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t...n+scabbard
I think most of the scabbards discussed in the thread would work with this pattern.
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Jeroen Zuiderwijk
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Sun 11 Nov, 2007 3:45 am Post subject: |
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| G Ezell wrote: | | Very nice sword, I'm not familiar with that particular one. The handle does appear organic (with a big crack in one area), most of the ones I've seen from this time period were handled in bronze. I'm guessing that's a horn grip, from the looks of it, but more likely it's wood. |
I was guessing horn too, with the center piece probably metal (bronze f.e.). The pommel and material inside the sandwich guards looks like bone, of which I've seen more examples. The covers of the sandwich guards, my guess is that's either bronze or guilded silver. They're sometimes iron, but judging from the difference in preservation with the blade, they looke like they're a more durable material.
A thanks, I forgot about that thread. I thought I'd had some schematic drawings of scabbards, but they are all 9th century and later. So that's too late for this sword.
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Jeroen Zuiderwijk
Industry Professional
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Jay Barron
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| Posted: Mon 12 Nov, 2007 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the info. Kevin and I are still working out the details of the hilt design, including materials.
Constant and true.
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Merv Cannon
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| Posted: Mon 12 Nov, 2007 8:02 pm Post subject: Migration Scabbards |
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This illustration is very interresting.......does anyone know if theres any evidence as to how many were slung by Baldrics as compared to worn on the belt ? I know thats an almost impossable question, but I guess there might be some way of knowing by some of the fittings...eg. strap-splitters, etc.
( Gee....what would " Osprey " do ?  )
Cheers
Merv ....... KOLR
http://www.lionrampant.com.au/
"Then let slip the dogs of war ! "......Woof !
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Peter Johnsson
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Sat 17 Nov, 2007 5:13 am Post subject: |
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| Jay Barron wrote: | | Thanks for the info. Kevin and I are still working out the details of the hilt design, including materials. |
I have not seen the original sword, but would guess the that the hilt is composed of horn and (gilt?) bronze.
The grip is probably a three part construction: Cone or trumpet shaped parts meeting a ring of (gilt?) bronze in the middle.
The upper and lower guards are five layer constructions: outer sheets of bronze sandwiching horn/bronze/horn. The pommel is obvioulsy bronze as well and might be hollow. A stiking feature is the simple but effective ring-dot decoration repeated on guards and pommel.
The scabbard for such a sword would probably be somewhat similar to early Vednel/Valsgärde scabbards. Through the Sutton-Hoo find we know there were (close?) contacts between England and eastern scandinavia at this time.
I would think a mouth band circling the opening of the scabbard, some kind of scabbard slide construction for the belt support and a long U-shaped "chape" that reaches across from halfway down the scabbard. Some kind of escuring embellishment at the apex of the curve, perhaps a stylized beast head.
I attach two possible versions. The solution on the left is a bit later, while the one on the right is a bit earlier. I cannot give exact datings for any without going through several books and articles. At a guess I would say that the later one would put the sword in the middle of the 7th C and the right would be 5th or ealry 6th C.
The left hand one is based on Valsgärde finds. The right hand one is based on germanic scabbards.
 Attachment: 71.51 KB
[ Download ]
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Peter Johnsson
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Sat 17 Nov, 2007 5:19 am Post subject: |
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Here is an attachment from the book "Das Schwert im Fruhen Mittelalter" by Wilfred Menghin.
It shows scabbard belt suspension as found in germanic context, but I think one of the pyramid "buttons" is from the Sutton-Hoo find. That would mean the design can be used in english context.
Hope this helps.
Attachment: 95.39 KB
[ Download ]
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Peter Johnsson
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Sat 17 Nov, 2007 5:26 am Post subject: |
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Hi Jeroen,
Those illustrationsare from A Geibig´s "Beiträge zur morphologischen Entwicklung des Schwertes im Mittelalter".
The earliest of those date to the 9th C, so they would be too modern for this sword.
It looks like some of the drawings could depict the general type of belt suspension seen in earlier periods, so perhaps some desings were long lived?
It is interesting that so many scaabrds seems to have had textile wrapping instead of a metal chape!
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This is a standard topic