[Carlisle Anderson-Frank]

Hi everyone
I am looking at different medieval-style swords and would like to purchase one in the near future. I want a sword which is VERY durable, holds an edge quite well, and is of reasonable quality. Historical accuracy is not my primary concern, although I want something that is aesthetically pleasing (not some cheap-looking Conan-the-barbarian replica).
My question is this.

What are the differences between swords in the $300-500 price range and swords in the $1000+ price range? I'm guessing historical accuracy would be one the the main differences, but I'm more interested in the differences in the actual quality of the steel and its tempering. Is a $1000 sword simply going to have much better ballance, better finish (no grind marks), higher Rockwell number for the edge, better spring to it.... than a cheaper sword? I want something that's nice looking, high quality, but most importantly very durable and capable of holding an edge. Would you guys recommend a $300 beater sword or something higher in quality? Can you explain to me the major differences in quality between these two price points?

Thank you very much!

[Jared Smith]

You are going to get lots of opinions in response to this sort of question. For standard models, the review section here at this web site is as close as you will come to a thorough and unbiased guide.

Do you intend for this to be a "test cutting sword?" Since you expressed a desire to have it stay sharp, I am guessing you are not intending to spar with it. (Most forum members and responsible organizations will not encourage you to spar with a razor sharp sword.)

Durability is subjective. If it cuts really great (thinner blade and sharper edge), it will not be immune to some edge damage and require that you occasionally hand dress it with a sharpening stone. Battleship weight swords tend to handle differently than "average historical" swords, and may not cut as well due to blade thickness and resistance.

Most people I have known that loved to test cut preferred ATrim. My first test cutting session I accidentally whacked one of his "Lady X" style longswords into the rim of a steel garbage can two times. The sword held up very well, much better than the barrel's mild steel rim. Best compromise between cutting performance, passable looks for "historical style", and durability seems to be why ATrim fans love his blades. Ignoring the furniture, his blades tend to be second to none and pretty phenomenal for that roughly $500 price range.

Angus may be willing to offer a peened pommel assembly, which will drive up the price some. You can probably still stay well below that $1000 price range though. I recommend this as I have not enjoyed tightening the pommel nut several times in a single cutting session with the "old and worn" ones with interchangeable pommels that I have used.

The $1000 range seems to reflect a higher degree of "historical geometry pedigree" and fine finishes in the hardware plus grip assembly than the $500 range. These sword's blades are not necessarily better in any mechanical sense than the $500 U.S. price range blades. My personal opinion is that where the mechanical quality and durability differences most obviously manifest themselves in Albion's models is from the guard down to the pommel.

As you go way above the $1000 price, or significantly below the $500 price, you may find one of a kind works of art (pattern welded, etc.), bargains that are actually quite good for the money, and duds. Always check the reviews here and posts regarding specific bladesmiths!

[Carlisle Anderson-Frank]

Thank you for your reply. So the differences in quality between these two price points will be mainly
I did not have any PARTICULAR use in mind e.g. cutting... I simply want a durable sword which is capable of doing what a sword is supposed to be able to do. In my part of the world there are a number of monsters, trolls etc... so I really just need a battle-worthy sword. Perhaps you have heard of the mokele-mbembe? Well if you haven't, that's one of the monsters I wish to slay.
I am not looking for a work of art, or even a sword which is museum-quality-historically-accurate. Simply put, I want a sword that can hack, hew, and stab monsters to death without fail.
I think I'll check out Angus Trim, Cold Steel, Gen 2, and Albion.
By the way I'm actually serious about slaying the Mokele-Mbembe.
Thanks again.

[Jared Smith]

Just in case anyone else is also curious about the "living monster" ....
http://www.mokelembembe.com/

This does not seem to be a conclusive hoax, but rather in the category of "Big Foot."

[Gordon Clark]

[David Lohnes]

This thread looks like a handy place for my question.

I've just taken the plunge and committed myself to studying German longsword.
And I need a sword.

I've (longingly) read and reread the excellent reviews featured on this site, and I've cruised various WMA websites and forums, so I have an idea of what's out there and how much it costs. As far as my price point, less is more, if you know what I'm saying.

From the time I first read Bill Gandy's intro to the German longsword I began to try out the various wards and such with a yard stick and the foam toys my four year old and I hack away with. Once I forsook Aikido and decided to invest the equivalent time, energy, and dollars into WMA, I figured I'd start out with a wooden waster for solo practice since I don't have a study partner yet.

But David Lindholm says this:
"Try to practice with reproduction weapons for learning the movements and leave the wasters until you are ready to do some two-person mock combat" (Knightly Art of the Longword 15). That caught me off guard at first, but now that I've thought about it it makes sense.

The point of a waster is to keep me from killing my partner. If I don't have a partner to worry about, I should be using my real sword. So I guess I ought to accelerate that purchase. And I'd like any advice you all have.

In the past, I've seen A&A's Fechterspiel as my first big purchase because it would handle like the real thing for solo purposes and be useful both for getting a feel for blade-on-blade winden technique and for some careful sparring. The only tradeoff is the loss of cutting practice. But that seemed like a great tradeoff: easier maintanence and sparring in exchange for cutting drills.

But since I won't have a partner for either winden or sparring for the foreseeable future while I will have plenty of solo time for things like practice cutting, it's beginning to seem more sensible to just get a real edged longsword.

So there you have it.
I want something for solo WMA practice which, assuming my reasoning is correct, means:
1) First and foremost, something that handles accurately for practicing wards and strikes, etc.
2) Something that's durable enough for me to practice strikes in real time and speed against a pell designed for the purpose. (I figure beating the air is not only bad practice, it's a great way to torque my spine. )
3) Something that can cut.
4) Something as inexpensive as possible. It doesn't have to be fancy or brand name. It doesn't even have to be shiny. It just needs to be a good learning tool.

I know there's lots of experienced, articulate people on here, and I'd be grateful for comment on any or all of the above.

Thanks.

[R D Moore]

Hello David,

There is an exceptional thread on this forum about selecting a practice long sword. You'll need to use the "search" function and search for the keywords " Liechtenauer" or "Meyer" because I didn't bookmark it and can't provide that info. This focuses on Albion, because I think they're the best. The ARMA has a video at http:/thearma.org/Videos/swordshow121.htm where John Clements and his partner use a pair of Liechtenauers in a demonstration. You can also click the link to it from Albion's web site on the Maestro Line page at the bottom of the text. I'm sure someone else here can give you other information because there are several good swordmakers you can choose from. Do the homework, take your time, then order the quality blunt that best fits your requirements. A word of caution; buy the best your budget will allow because you do indeed " get what you pay for. "

Good hunting!

[Jared Smith]

The Marketplace section here has a small but steady stream of "slightly used, but in nearly new condition" swords. The actual "sold prices" are private, but initial asking price often runs at around 70% of original price if the model is still being produced. Out of production swords seem to have even lower initial asking prices. If you study the Reviews section and make yourself a list of ones you would like to own... you should be able to get a suitable sword at much less cost than retail. You might even have it in considerably less time than it would take some of the manufacturers to deliver a new order!
http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t...highlight=

In the Albion models, the Agincourt, Fiore, Ringeck and Talhoffer have all been enthusiastically received by German Longsword fans. These currently retail between $722 and $900 + U.S. depending upon some new optional grip enhancements that you could tack on to the base prices (base prices between $722 and $777.) I personally like the Munich and think it is also a great handling sword for longsword study and practice. Unfortunately its over the $1000 U.S. price range.

There are comparable (for general looks, historical handling, and cutting performance) Angus Trim models that are great swords, at lower cost. But you will still be looking at roughly around $500 U.S. for a new one.

[Max von Bargen]

Carlisle,

It sounds to me like an Angus Trim is a good match for you--cheaper than most Albion or Arms & Armor swords, but very tough, good cutting blades. I think that the extra $200-300 for an Albion is worth it, but that's personal preference about what I want to see in a sword (in my case, absolute historical accuracy). If you're not as concerned about that, and it sounds like you're not, then I think an ATrim would be perfect for you.

David,

I would really strongly recommend Albion's NG line. They'll be expensive, but I think they're worth it. I just got my Talhoffer a few weeks ago and it completely changed the outlook I had on Liechtenauer after practicing for a while with a lower-end sword. I also think an ATrim or Arms & Armor would probably be fine if you can't quite spring the funds for an Albion.

Good luck to both of you!

Max

[Robin Smith]

Carlisle:
I agree with Max here. It sounds like you are looking more for performance, with historical accuracy not being such a concern. As such, I think an ATrim would be perfect for hunting down Mokele-Mbembe. I suggest skipping Gen 2 or Cold Steel. Although they are cheaper, when Mokele-Mbembe rears its head up to strike, you're gonna wish you hadn't skimped on a few dollars. Though personally I prefer Albion (due to a focus on historical accuracy), I would have no hesitation trusting my life to an ATrim, something I can't say for a Gen 2 or ColdSteel...

[Joe Fults]

I'd suggest something cheaper...perhaps even waiting a bit to see if some products in development materialize from various makers. You'll end up replacing whatever you buy the first time six to twenty times over anyways, so I wouldn't get too hung up on getting the very bestest, mostest, rightest, thing.

[Bob Burns]

Actually Carlisle, you don't "have to" jump to the $1,000.00 plus status to acquire a fine sword, they actually start around $550 to $650 and up, for fine swords from Gus Trim, Albion and Arms & Armor. Although Albion has several fine swords at the $1,000 and up range, of which I have two, and Arms & Armor will make whatever custom sword you would like in the $1,000 and higher range. I've not yet bought a custom sword from Arms & Armor but I have bought 9 swords and 1 rapier from them and from my 2 Albions and 10 Arms & Armor Swords I am thrilled to bits with each one of them.
I have as of yet to buy a Gus Trim or a Tinker, but I would not hesitate for a second in contemplation of buying from either of these fine sword makers! Oh yeah, how could I possibly forget to list Ollin Blades!!!!! Another outstanding high quality sword maker
You just can't go wrong with any of these companies!

The differences are things like the quality of the steel and the tempering thereof, the tang, hardware fittings such as crossguards, pommels and grips. Smooth grinding of the blade, proper balance for that particular sword, attention to the detail of the physics and geometry of the blade and the sword as a whole. The difference between the two ranges that you've mentioned and which I have listed, is vast, it's like getting out of a Ford or a Chevy and getting into a Mercedes or a Lexus!

Hope this helps, feel free to private message me!


Bob