First serious sword purchase? -- myArmoury.com

Tony Brass · Posted: Mon 17 Sep, 2007 9:33 am Post subject: First serious sword purchase?

I have bought mid-range swords before - Cold Steel, Windlass, Kris Cutlery. I have decided it is time to step it up. From reading articles on myArmoury, I have decided Arms and Armor has the qualities, and the look I want. I want a long sword of at least hand-and-a-half proportion. I looks like it is a duel between the Durer and the German Bastard Sword.

I like them both, I've read the reviews - about five times, but before let hard earned money go - I'm looking for even more insight:

Is the 4 1/2 lbs on the GBS going to make me regret my purchase? I love the sword, but the weight makes wonder, if the quickness of the Durer would not be a better choice. i like the idea of the rigid blade, and the hilts seem 1st rate.

Any thoughts are welcome.

Eric Myers · Posted: Mon 17 Sep, 2007 9:49 am Post subject:

What are you going to do with it? That could influence your choice...

Tony Brass · Posted: Mon 17 Sep, 2007 9:56 am Post subject:

I want a sword that is battlefield capable. I want to know that it could hold it's own in heavy combat, and not be sluggishis in a duel. After spending that kind of money on a sword, I will probably only do light cutiing, but i want to know that it could do much more.

In short I want to own a sword that fighters of the era would admire.

Jean Thibodeau · Posted: Mon 17 Sep, 2007 9:58 am Post subject: Re: First serious sword purchase?

Tony Brass · Posted: Mon 17 Sep, 2007 10:05 am Post subject:

As i reflect on this. I suppose I really want the GBS but I am concerned about the weight making the sword feel slow. The Durer makes more sense as an all around sword due to its lighter weight.

I am 6', 200 lbs, and with humility, fit. But that only makes a lighter sword that much faster.

Let me refine, or just alter, my question, Is the fearsome quality of the GBS increased weight, worth it in combat? If a sword was meant to be a fast weapon, is this weight really an advantage, even in armored combat?

Jean Thibodeau · Posted: Mon 17 Sep, 2007 10:29 am Post subject:

Eric Myers · Posted: Mon 17 Sep, 2007 10:59 am Post subject:

Glen A Cleeton · Posted: Mon 17 Sep, 2007 11:10 am Post subject:

Although I have never handled the Durer, I suspect it is a more flexible sword than the GBS (which I am quite familiar with). They are two very different sword types. I do own an XVIIIb (Del Tin 5157) that is a few inches longer than the Durer and a couple of ounces heavier. The very real difference in handling is that the lighter sword is much quicker in direction changes and wielding /steering with one hand.

Just an example; They both cut bottles but the lighter sword is quite capable in doing this with one hand. The weight difference is very real. In the picture below, you can see the weight of the sword actually doing a lot of the work. Once in motion, there is some momentum. The target is Bugei wara, the sword mine but I'm behind the camera.

Although the GBS is classified as a bastard, it is really more a shorter two-handed sword. It is tough to slow down and reverse directions without a second hand. This is not to say it can't be muscled up to speed pretty easily and isn't very fun to work with.

For a very quick and quite stiff anti-armour sword, i would vote for the Black Prince. Heavier than the Durer, a (good) bit shorter overall but unbelievably agile in one hand or two. A sacrifice is grip and blade length, as well as shear cutting ability. Despite the cutting sacrifice, it is (imo) quite a handy do-all. It really does boil down to what you are expecting to do with it other than admire it.

Cheers

GC

Tony Brass · Posted: Mon 17 Sep, 2007 11:39 am Post subject:

Thank you for the helpful advice. What i love about swords, is the same thing that frustrates me about swords. Each design represents decisions made by warriors. Each deciding what attributes are most important to them, and startegizing about how these attributes will best defeat their opponents.

The GBS is a great design, and seems absolutley brutal, but unless the weilder is very well armoured indeed, he might have trouble with an opponent armed with a more nimble weapon. I hate to admit this, but i do want the sword work to be fun, and 4 lbs + sounds powerful, but not fun, according to those who have weilded the sword.

I will consider the black prince, and the Durer is still in the running.

I'm also open to other recommendations.

Thank you all.

Sean Flynt · Posted: Mon 17 Sep, 2007 11:52 am Post subject:

I love the lines of the GBS, and the weight seems to be within spec for historical examples. I understand your reservations about the weight, but I'd be more concerned about the blade. The original on which the GBS is based appears to have a flat-ish fullered blade of (perhaps) hexagonal or lenticular lower section. The GBS blade is an attractive and historically plausible choice, but even if it matched the weight of the original's blade, it wouldn't perform in the same way. That might nag at me if I were a purist ( and given the price point). I don't have the same concerns about the Dürer. Of course, we're comparing Porsche models--The quality is there no matter what. The rest is individual taste and historical interest. I will note that, of the two, I'd want the GBS. Also, everybody who has owned one seems to love it.

Here's an option you might not have considered: Get the Dürer and if you still hunger for a heavy German bastard sword of the early 16th c., get the Windlass German Bastard Sword and upgrade it as I did mine. I'd say it's about as close to the original on which it's based (Wallace Collection A477) as the A&A GBS is to the original on which it's based. You can make up some of the inevitable quality difference on the workbench if you're handy with simple tools. Looks great with an upgrade....

Russ Ellis · Industry Professional

Get both.

My first A&A purchase was the GBS... and I've got a Durer on order. I really couldn't make a decision if I had to between my A&A swords. The GBS is a powerful cutter the English Longsword is fast and nimble as is the Bohemain Broadsword, the Schloss Erbach...er yeah I can't make that call... Happy

Tony Brass · Posted: Mon 17 Sep, 2007 4:21 pm Post subject:

BTW Sean, i love your Windlass GBS. I am not as handy as you, but if I could be assured of a solid hilt, and an appropriately rigid blade, I might go for the Windlass myself. As I am not that handy, I really want to go with a reputable manufacturer, and I also like to support businesses like Albion and A&A who care to go the extra mile.

Please understand, that i am jealous of your ability to improve on the product you bought. i think it would feel great to have your own work improve or create a personal sword. Your GBS really is a thing of beauty, curse you.

Glen A Cleeton · Posted: Mon 17 Sep, 2007 5:17 pm Post subject:

Just in case it makes it any easier to picture, here is an A&A Black Prince with the German Bastard. The BP is a little more than 43" overall, point to peen. The GBS just shy of 50", as previously mentioned.

Cheers

GC

Gordon Clark · Posted: Mon 17 Sep, 2007 5:31 pm Post subject:

Russ Ellis · Industry Professional

Tony Brass · Posted: Tue 18 Sep, 2007 8:25 am Post subject:

I am now considering the Schloss Erbach. I don't love the square guard, even though I can see it is historically accurate. Sometimes things like that can grow on me over time. It does seem like the middle ground between GBS and Durer. I was under the impression that the Durer was plenty rigid for good thrusting. Am I wrong?

Eric Myers · Posted: Tue 18 Sep, 2007 8:51 am Post subject:

Russ Ellis · Industry Professional

Edward Hitchens · Posted: Tue 18 Sep, 2007 6:53 pm Post subject:

Joe Fults · Posted: Tue 18 Sep, 2007 7:03 pm Post subject: Re: First serious sword purchase?