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Grayson C.
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 Posted: Fri 14 Sep, 2007 3:43 pm Post subject: Victorian Era England? |
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Hey guys, I'm reading a lot of negatives about the victorians in terms of their views of the dark ages which subsequently is translated into historical fact (which is really quite ficticious). Where is this info from? I've tried searching and haven't found anything?
Also, I'd be really grateful for an small summary of just what the victorians did to earn all of this spite from us. Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm not against it. But I'd prefer to know WHY I need to dislike them 
Ok, enough noobish questions from me
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Felix Wang
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| Posted: Fri 14 Sep, 2007 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think anyone hates the Victorians, but if you are going to try and learn about the realities of the past (and no one has unique access to the "HISTORIC TRUTH")  you do need to be aware of the foibles of history as studied by anyone.
The Victorians had a number of prejudices that show up in much of their historical research. One pervasive one is faith in Progress in European History, whereby the course of events from the Renaissance up to the 19th century is seen as one in which Europeans advance in all fields of human enterprise (business, art, science, math, and yes, war and combat).
Some historians of fencing were generally convinced that what they practiced, 19th century dueling sword/classical fencing, was the absolutely best form of sword fighting. Ever. End of Discussion. Therefore, any medieval form of fighting had to be different from the earliest documented precursor to the dueling sword, which was Renaissance rapier; medieval swordsmanship was, as far as they were concerned, literally prehistoric. Therefore it must have been crude and inferior.
With other periods of history, you have to deal with nostalgia for some lost Golden Age, which tends to have the opposite distorting effect.
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Robin Smith
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| Posted: Fri 14 Sep, 2007 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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Their is also a strong Pro-Anglo sentiment that colors their thinking. You'll find many works hold up England as the pinnacle of mankind, and this goes back all the way to the Saxons. They Victorians have a strong anti-Norman bias. It seems most intolerable to the Victorians that the Normans had successfully conquered England. Most of the works from the period treat the Normans as villains, and even the word "feudal" has roots in this thinking. The Norman system of counts and milites was not so different than the Saxon system of earls and thanes, but the Victorians drew a sharp dividing line at the imposition of the Norman system, thus beginning the feudal age.
A furore Normannorum libera nos, Domine
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Michael Olsen
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| Posted: Sat 15 Sep, 2007 7:42 pm Post subject: Re: Victorian Era England? |
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| Grayson C. wrote: | | Hey guys, I'm reading a lot of negatives about the victorians in terms of their views of the dark ages which subsequently is translated into historical fact (which is really quite ficticious). Where is this info from? I've tried searching and haven't found anything? |
I think some of the information you are looking for can be found at many auctions and potentially in some museums - victorian recreations of medieval and renaissance arms and armour. Now, if my limited understanding of this is correct, the Victorian society was relatively fascinated by the romantic (i.e. not actual) representation of the medieval knight. As such they reproduced, sometimes in great detail, weapons and armour. Unfortunately, from what I understand, they focused essentially entirely on capturing the appearance of a piece more so than its detailed physical properties. This led to the creation of quite a large number of pieces that look, on the surface, like an extant example, but are made of cast iron or are improperly proportioned or balanced (exaggerated thickness of sword blades and armour). I feel this, as well as any other source, is were some of the myths (15 pound swords, 200 pounds of armour) came from as it was entirely possible that the victorian reproductions, meant only for display, actually weighed that much.
Again, this is only my understanding of a very small set of data - I may very much be spewing "counter-myth myths" and if I am, I ask that anyone who knows better please correct me and set it straight.
| Grayson C. wrote: | | Also, I'd be really grateful for an small summary of just what the victorians did to earn all of this spite from us. Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm not against it. But I'd prefer to know WHY I need to dislike them |
I'd urge you not to dislike them. Despite their folly, the resurgence in popularity of the medieval culture during the victorian period may very well have kept what little we have extant today from being used as scrap.
Michael Olsen
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Grayson C.
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| Posted: Sat 15 Sep, 2007 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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(I dislike imperialism as a whole.)
I don't "dislike" the victorians so much as I dislike what they've done to start all of these myths. Understand?
Thanks for all of the info everyone!
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