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Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Armour from the Sankt-Annen Museum, Lübeck Reply to topic
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Tue 11 Sep, 2007 5:15 pm    Post subject: Armour from the Sankt-Annen Museum, Lübeck         Reply with quote

I was hoping to start a discussion of the following armour/arming garment from the Sankt-Annen Museum, Lübeck (?)

I don't know anything about it and was hoping somebody could tell me what it is and fill in some details.

I am particularly intrigued by the Gustav-Wasa-Wams name appearing in the high-resolution's id card.

Thank you.



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Gregory J. Liebau




Location: Dinuba, CA
Joined: 27 Nov 2004

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PostPosted: Tue 11 Sep, 2007 5:30 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Could I X-Post this over on the Armour Archive? I think help would be more prompt. Looks fascinating. Obviously 16th century, in my opinion an actual bit of armour, rather than for arming. But I can't argue it either way except that such a well-fit garmet that mocks the shape of a cuirass could be a poor man's version.

(EDIT: Found a lot more about it, including images, when I asked over at the armour archive!

The Thread

I'd post the images all here, but they aren't mine to post, so I assume it's best to x-post it. If you'd rather it not be posted here, then you can bring the images over yourself! Big Grin Cheers!)

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Gordon Frye




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PostPosted: Tue 11 Sep, 2007 9:43 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

VERY interesting, definitely looks 15th Century to me, rather than the 16th Century (or later) as attributed in the card. If it's Swedish, perhaps Daniel Staberg could contribute some commentary on it.

At any rate, definitely looks to be an over garment/armour. Again, VERY interesting! I look forward to other's comments, both here and on AA.

Cheers!

Gordon

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Ivo Malz




Location: Hanau, Germany
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PostPosted: Wed 12 Sep, 2007 9:05 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hello.

The padded garments are not in the St Annen Museum, but in the Holstentor. The museum owns two of them, a rather well preserved piece 8which is stowed away) and one the chest portion of which is missing (which is on display, the wrong way round, the intact back portion facing the visitors.

An old legend has it that King Gustav Vasa of Sweden some time in the early 16rth century, when he fled to Lübeck, wore these garments, but that´s a Victorian legend. There is another coat that looks exactly the same in Stendal.

Stylistically I´d date them around 1440, into the "Kastenbrust era" if I may say so. The proportions set into relation, the coats have a quite highly set waist, come down to about mid- thigh, and the dagged flaps come down to about knee level. compatre to the Heilsspiegelaltar by Konrad Witz or Van Eyck´s paintings

Closer examination revealed that the Stendal coat as well as the intact one from Lübeck have rust stains- on the front only. They are manufactured from quite coarse material, but aping the style of the higher classes.
The furry dags on the lower hem are made from linen, and the fur ist produced by rows of frayed out linen sewn to w foundation strip. The backsides are painted black, probably in pitch or some oil based colour, maybe as a means of protection from the weather. Contemporary art sometimes shows the same "colour pattern" with a blackened back and unpanted off- white or dyed front.

The coats most likely were part of the armour for the local militia that wore them with a breastplate sans backplate, and a helmet, not the knightly foundation for higher- ranking shiny armour.

Regards

Ivo
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James Barker




Location: Ashburn VA
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PostPosted: Wed 12 Sep, 2007 11:32 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here is a painting by Simon Marmion. Crucifixion c. 1470 with that exact style in it:


James Barker
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