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Merv Cannon
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 Posted: Thu 06 Sep, 2007 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Manouchehr M. wrote: | Dear friends,
I was in Paris again couple of weeks ago and took some shots of some firearms and some other stuff there. Would you like me to continue here?  Any antique firearm interested people?
Kind regards
Manouchehr |
Manouchehr .......Yes, my friend, indeed, of course we would ! You have brought some very valuable photos to this forum...esp. fro people like myself who are somewhat stuck on the other side of the earth and and find their dreams of European travel hard to realise.
Thank you !
Merv ....... KOLR
http://www.lionrampant.com.au/
"Then let slip the dogs of war ! "......Woof !
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Manouchehr M.
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| Posted: Thu 06 Sep, 2007 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you very much Merv for your kind words. It is indeed a pleasure to share my pictures with my friends here.
I have been very busy writing my second book, and also a number of offers for different print magazines in Europe and North America, hence my absence here. I have not forgotten to take pictures though.
I start with some firearms. I travel to Paris regularly and will take more next time.
Kind regards
Manouchehr
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http://www.mmkhorasani.com
http://www.arms-and-armor-from-iran.de
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Manouchehr M.
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Gordon Frye
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| Posted: Fri 07 Sep, 2007 12:31 am Post subject: |
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Manouchehr;
Thank you VERY much for posting these photo's of late-16th/early-17th Century firearms. These are indeed my real passion, and it's wonderful to see photo's of such arms that I have not seen before. It is greatly appreciated, and I would very much enjoy any others you may wish to post.
Thank you again, kind Sir, for this attention.
Cheers!
Gordon
"After God, we owe our victory to our Horses"
Gonsalo Jimenez de Quesada
http://www.renaissancesoldier.com/
http://historypundit.blogspot.com/
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Manouchehr M.
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| Posted: Fri 07 Sep, 2007 8:45 am Post subject: |
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| Gordon Frye wrote: | Manouchehr;
Thank you VERY much for posting these photo's of late-16th/early-17th Century firearms. These are indeed my real passion, and it's wonderful to see photo's of such arms that I have not seen before. It is greatly appreciated, and I would very much enjoy any others you may wish to post.
Thank you again, kind Sir, for this attention.
Cheers!
Gordon |
Gordon,
You are very welcome my friend. It is a pleasure to share all these beautiful pictures with my friends here. I have access to different European and American museums now and I am sure they will even let me handle these. Maybe one day when I have done enough research on Persian arms I could also take close pictures of these beauties and handle them and share them with my friends here.
Closeups of the above pieces for you Gordon.
Kind regards
Manouchehr
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Gordon Frye
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Manouchehr M.
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| Posted: Sat 08 Sep, 2007 9:37 am Post subject: |
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| Gordon Frye wrote: | Manouchehr;
Thank you very much! It is very much appreciated!
Cheers!
Gordon |
Gordon
You are very welcome my friend. It is always a pleasure to share with my friends in this wonderful place. More pictures.
KInd regards
Manouchehr Moshtagh Khorasani
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Manouchehr M.
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Manouchehr M.
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| Posted: Sun 09 Sep, 2007 8:19 am Post subject: |
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OK my friends let us continue. If you have any input on these guns, I would be very happy to learn. Thanks.
Kind regards
Manouchehr
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Gordon Frye
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| Posted: Mon 10 Sep, 2007 9:03 am Post subject: |
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Manouchehr;
Again, thank you for the wonderful photographs. It's always nice to see items that aren't pictured in every book out there!
Per your question, the mass of the wheellock pistols (and carbines as well) shown in your photo's of the display are of German, or at least Germanic, style. The ball-butt "Puffer" was a very popular weapon, and many show the full flowering of Mannerist art with not only the rich inlays of bone and ivory, but also in the basic form of the ball-butt. Contrary to popular belief though, the ball was not a form of a club, but at best to provide a firm purchase for pulling the pistol from the saddle holster while wearing heavy gauntlets.
I do wish to point out something of interest, which is that while the pistols shown for the most part in the later photo's are all German, many of the earlier photo's are of French-style pistols and carbines. The detached lockplate will show the difference. This is the French-style lock, with the much larger mainspring showing from the back, with a very small lockplate:
And here is the lock mounted on a weapon:
It makes for a very much smaller lockplate, and for a much more graceful stock than the German-style locks which had the mainspring mounted on the lockplate. Here is one of the photo's of German-style locks mounted on their pistols:
The German style is probably quite a bit stronger, but the French-style is certainly more graceful. One may note that most 17th-Century wheellocks, while using the German-style mechanism with the mainspring fixed to the lockplate, had a very French-style stock with the deep belly to correspond to the depth of the wheel, so though the French version of the wheellock didn't spread far, the basic look of it did.
Cheers!
Gordon
"After God, we owe our victory to our Horses"
Gonsalo Jimenez de Quesada
http://www.renaissancesoldier.com/
http://historypundit.blogspot.com/
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Manouchehr M.
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Manouchehr M.
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Gordon Frye
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| Posted: Mon 10 Sep, 2007 10:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Manouchehr M. wrote: | Hi Gordon,
Could you please describe the following pieces as well? Thanks my friend.
Kind regards
Manouchehr |
Manouchehr:
Most certainly. These are (almost) all of what are often refered to by collectors and students as "Saxon Dags", though in the period were refered to as "Puffers" (i.e. they let out a puff of smoke when fired, "puffer" being a slang term meaning "smoker"). The first one, a nice long barreled piece, is probably from the 1590's I'd guess, due to the length of the barrel and shape of the ball-butt. As armour improved, barrels of pistols got longer to increase the velocity of the bullets to hopefully make them more effective. Very nice inlays!
The second photograph shows a pair of what probably ARE in fact Saxon pistols, from the armoury of the Elector of Saxony in Dresden. Christian I had hundreds of these made up in the 1580's for his "trabantenguarde", and they are still pretty common, at least inso far as any wheellocks might be common. Black stocks with a checkered finish to them. Interestingly enough, he is the same fellow who commissioned the "Dresden" style sword-rapiers that are commemorated by Arms and Armour in their "Dresden" rapier and dagger set.
The top pistol, above the various "Saxon Dags" is a superimposed piece, with two locks on a single lockplate. There are two touch holes drilled in the barrel, and two charges would be loaded with a heavy greased wad between them. The first trigger pull would fire off the front lock, and charge, followed by the second with another pull of the trigger. Unfortunately when things weren't done in quite the right order, things often went poorly.
One interesting thing about the double-locked piece is that it is clearly somewhat older than the ball-butted pistols that it is housed with. Both the style of the butt (fish-tailed) as well as the style of the feather spring (the spring bringing pressure upon the dog/cock which holds the pyrites) point to a 1540's or perhaps 1550's date for it, at least based upon what I can see from the photo's.
There are some very nice musket flasks above the pistols, as well as "patron boxes" or cartridge boxes for pistols to the left of them. These are made of either iron or wood and ivory, and hold several paper cartridges which were made up in advance for pistols to increase the speed of loading. Some of these patron boxes are, as you can see, very ornate!
I also wanted to point out the very nice pair of all-steel wheellock pistols which can be seen in several of the photographs. VERY beautiful, if plain, pieces.
Again, wonderful photographs, Manouchehr, so thank you for bringing them to our attention.
Cheers!
Gordon
"After God, we owe our victory to our Horses"
Gonsalo Jimenez de Quesada
http://www.renaissancesoldier.com/
http://historypundit.blogspot.com/
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Manouchehr M.
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Manouchehr M.
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Gordon Frye
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| Posted: Wed 12 Sep, 2007 11:24 pm Post subject: |
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WOW! More VERY nice pistols! I would venture that the top one's are mostly French, or made with French-style locks, while one of the lower pistols (with the ivory butt-cap) is probably Dutch, with its own style of lock which took from both the French (in style and grace) and the German (which was much stronger a lock). They ended up with VERY slender pistols, very graceful yet fairly strong.
The very long graceful pistols which look to be in the center of the case (with fishtail butts) are probably French, but whether or not they have the lemon-butt or fishtail-butt on the stock, the French pistols are gorgeous! The pistols with the large, lozenge-shaped lockplates are more than likely German in origin.
There are also a pair of pistols which are probably German, and almost look as though they have a period "rifle" stock on them (the rifles of the day didn't have the "normal" buttstock, but were made to be held against the cheek, rather than the shoulder). They may well be rifled pistols, and intended to be, like the larger rifles, fired while at rest against the cheek.
The very bottom pistols with the heavy butts are probably VERY late-17th Century, as most of the architecture is that of a flintlock, rather than a wheellock. Perhaps they are Swedish issue? And the combination flintlock-axe could be from one of many different origins. Perhaps Eastern German, or Swedish, or even Polish. Hard to tell from the photo, but interesting none the less.
Very nice photo's, yet again! I look forward to more!
Cheers!
Gordon
"After God, we owe our victory to our Horses"
Gonsalo Jimenez de Quesada
http://www.renaissancesoldier.com/
http://historypundit.blogspot.com/
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Jean Thibodeau
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| Posted: Thu 13 Sep, 2007 6:47 am Post subject: |
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| Gordon Frye wrote: | And the combination flintlock-axe could be from one of many different origins. Perhaps Eastern German, or Swedish, or even Polish. Hard to tell from the photo, but interesting none the less.
Very nice photo's, yet again! I look forward to more!
Cheers!
Gordon |
Could the lock on the flintlock-axe be a Miquelet lock which I think was used by the Spanish or Moors ?
And I'm also enjoying all the good early forearms pics.
Manouchehr: Please continue with those but if there are some interesting polearms, warhammers, maces, combination weapons they would be very much appreciated.
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Gordon Frye
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| Posted: Thu 13 Sep, 2007 7:50 am Post subject: |
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| Jean Thibodeau wrote: |
Could the lock on the flintlock-axe be a Miquelet lock which I think was used by the Spanish or Moors ? |
Jean;
It's hard to tell from the photo's, but I suspect that the lock is more of the Baltic variety than a true Mediterranian Miquelet lock, of either Spanish or Italian form, but I'm not positive about that. However, judging from the style of the stock, the inlay and the axe-blade, I'll stick with my Northern European provenance fof the piece. Of course, it could be a northern piece with a southern lock, far stranger things have happened... Only a close-up shot, or a shot of the description will tell.
Cheers!
Gordon
"After God, we owe our victory to our Horses"
Gonsalo Jimenez de Quesada
http://www.renaissancesoldier.com/
http://historypundit.blogspot.com/
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Micha Hofmann
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| Posted: Sat 15 Sep, 2007 10:10 am Post subject: |
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Oh wow.
I have just returned from a 40 hour business-trip to Paris, during which I had the opportunity to visit this wonderful museum.
I have especially enjoyed the large number of relatively well-preserved swords and rapiers. I just wanted to thank you people here for awaking my interest in this wonderful place. I will certainly visit it again, when I have more time.
Regards and thanks again.
Micha
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Manouchehr M.
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