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Vincent Le Chevalier




Location: Paris, France
Joined: 07 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: Thu 21 Jun, 2007 8:06 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sam N. wrote:
The link to the throwing cross is broken. Could you post another one though? I am really interested in finding out what this weapon looks like!


It's just a stray dot in the url. Here is the correct link:
http://img77.imageshack.us/img77/2194/16thcge...rospo3.jpg

For exotic weapons, I would add some form of cane that had ingenuous system inside them: gun, flails, razor blades along the shaft, steel needles springing out...

--
Vincent
Ensis Sub Caelo
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Neil Langley




Location: Stockport, UK
Joined: 23 Jan 2006

Posts: 112

PostPosted: Thu 21 Jun, 2007 11:18 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Craig Peters wrote:
Let's not forget weapons like the clubs and the chopper found in the Maciejowski Bible: http://www.medievaltymes.com/courtyard/images...tm14vd.gif


Think the club here is Samson’s ‘jawbone of an ass’!

Neil.
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Nate C.




Location: Palo Alto, CA
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PostPosted: Thu 21 Jun, 2007 11:36 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Let's not forget Caltrops, Partisans, and that nifty combination matchlock/holy water sprinkler.

I think most of the Asian "exotic" weapons have an analogous weapon in European weaponry, we just don't perceive them as exotic.

Cheers,

Nate C.

Sapere Aude
"If you are going to kill the man, at least give him a decent salute." - A. Blansitt

If they ever come up with a Swashbuckling School, I think one of the courses should be Laughing, then Jumping Off Something. --Jack Handy
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Korey J. Lavoie




Location: New Hampshire, USA
Joined: 06 Apr 2006

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PostPosted: Thu 21 Jun, 2007 7:35 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Good point Nate, articulated weapons are revered as being highly exotic. Compare the European Flail to the Chinese 9-section Chain Whips, some Flails even use linked bars that are highly similar. As for my personal favorite, I defy anyone to find a weapon more exotic then a Two-Handed War Sword with a Flammard Blade.
The problem is their ubiquitous depiction and the Galling way in which European fighting tactics have been portrayed as using brute force without finesse or skill. I'd like to see the members of this forum get together and write a film or design a video-game that displays European fighting styles in all their Glory and Diversity.

From the hundred year war
To the Crimea
With a Lance and a Musket and a Roman Spear
To all of the Men who have stood with no fear
In the Service of the King
-The Clash: The Card Cheat
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George Hill




Location: Atlanta Ga
Joined: 16 May 2005

Posts: 614

PostPosted: Thu 21 Jun, 2007 8:47 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Korey J. Lavoie wrote:
I'd like to see the members of this forum get together and write a film or design a video-game that displays European fighting styles in all their Glory and Diversity.



I have no doubt several of us are doing just that.

To abandon your shield is the basest of crimes. - --Tacitus on Germania
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Korey J. Lavoie




Location: New Hampshire, USA
Joined: 06 Apr 2006

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PostPosted: Thu 21 Jun, 2007 9:30 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

George Hill wrote:
Korey J. Lavoie wrote:
I'd like to see the members of this forum get together and write a film or design a video-game that displays European fighting styles in all their Glory and Diversity.



I have no doubt several of us are doing just that.


I should have known, I have noticed that there a lot of people with a great depth of knowledge and expertise around here. I need to lurk in Off-topic talk more.

From the hundred year war
To the Crimea
With a Lance and a Musket and a Roman Spear
To all of the Men who have stood with no fear
In the Service of the King
-The Clash: The Card Cheat
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Martin Forrester




Location: Huddersfield
Joined: 30 Oct 2006

Posts: 42

PostPosted: Fri 22 Jun, 2007 4:52 am    Post subject: Re: Exotic western weapons         Reply with quote

Merv Cannon wrote:
Craig Peters wrote:
Also, while it may never have existed, take a look at Fiore's pole axe sword (bottom right guard depicted in the six masters illustration): http://www.aemma.org/onlineResources/liberi/liberi00.htm


Hi Craig...........Do you know if Liberi calls this weapon a "poleaxe-sword" in the translation himself ? I cant see that it is, myself....it looks very much like a two-handed Boar hunting sword to me. Im no expert here, but I just cant make out the äxe" part ! Looks the same as the boar hunting swords that I've seen in both the shape of the speartip point and the cross bar behind it.
Anyone like to add comment on this ?
Thanks !


It was common for pollaxe to lack a wide bladed axehead (http://www.myArmoury.com/feature_spot_poleaxe.html), so that's not a problem. I think it is interesting that the guy shown is unarmoured. Modifying a sword like this would make it more clumsy held at the hilt, but a demon for halfsword. I think you would only do this for harnessfechten (whatever Italian word is). I would like to try one of these against polearms, loads of possibilities for trapping their bill head and getting in there.

Oh, lets just pull out our swords and start whacking at each other, that'll solve everything!
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Reinier van Noort





Joined: 13 Dec 2006

Posts: 165

PostPosted: Fri 22 Jun, 2007 4:56 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The first time I saw that illustration, I thought it's purpose was to illustrate that all parts of a sword are a potential weapon or something like that (or to illustrate the parallels in use between different weapons).
Though I am not saying that I still think so, and when I had that thought I hadn't looked at any text either.

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Craig Peters




PostPosted: Fri 22 Jun, 2007 5:08 am    Post subject: Re: Exotic western weapons         Reply with quote

Martin Forrester wrote:


It was common for pollaxe to lack a wide bladed axehead (http://www.myArmoury.com/feature_spot_poleaxe.html), so that's not a problem.


Although, in fairness to Merv who may have known this already, Fiore's weapon doesn't even have a traditional pole-axe head. As Merv notes, it really looks more like a boar spear sword.
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Bill Grandy
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PostPosted: Fri 22 Jun, 2007 6:08 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Actually, the Fiore "pole axe sword" is what I was referencing when I was talking about a sword with a movable hand guard. The "rondel" slides on the blade, and the hand is gripping the "handle" of it. I got to play with a reproduction that A&A is working on for Bob Charron, and it is REALLY cool!
Virginia Academy of Fencing Historical Swordsmanship
--German Longsword & Italian Rapier in the DC Area--


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Craig Peters




PostPosted: Fri 22 Jun, 2007 7:20 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Another common weapon, but in an exotic form, is the swords found in the fencing in harness section of Fillipo Vadi's manual, which apparently swell and widen near the tip:

http://www.thearma.org/Manuals/VadiNewImages/Untitled-jv3.jpg
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Samuel Bena




Location: Slovakia
Joined: 10 Dec 2007

Posts: 93

PostPosted: Sat 17 Oct, 2009 1:20 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sorry for bumping into this old thread but I posted about this "lasso" back at ARMA forum and nobody seem to come with a definite conclusion:



The picture comes from one of the works of PH Mair (app 1542 ) and shows some sort of mounted fighting technique. Notice the "rope" that one rider uses offensively to put the other one out of the saddle.. it somehow reminded me of the 16th century ottoman miniatures depicting a Sipahi/Akinji that dismounts a hungarian man-at-arms with the use of a lasso.



Has anyone got an idea of what the "weapon" on the first picture could be ?

Regards,
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Gregory J. Liebau




Location: Dinuba, CA
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PostPosted: Sat 17 Oct, 2009 5:58 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Need a light? This baby is a lantern, stomach cork-screw, hidden sword, shield, gauntlet and flamberged knife all in one! And it's not swiss! It's Venetian in origin, and dates to the late 16th century. This example is housed in the Kunsthistorisches Museum in Vienna, Austria. The photos are mine.




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T Lui




Location: Florida
Joined: 25 Jul 2009

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PostPosted: Sun 18 Oct, 2009 1:28 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nice catch, Mr. Liebau! I recall watching a documentary about weaponry that showcased a spiked buckler with a built in lantern used to light your way and blind/distract your opponent. But your example goes way beyond even that design, heh.

As far as many exotic Asian weaponry, one should also remember the context in which they were used. In the case of Japanese exotic weapons, the Shogunate basically outlawed most conventional weapons from being carried openly by anyone except the samurai class, disarming the lower classes and forcing peasants/commoners to convert agrarian tools into makeshift weapons like the kusari-gama, nunchaku, etc. in order to defend themselves from attack.

Similarly, you have the Shaolin develop unique weapons to suit their own martial art styles and government limitations (various Dynasties were always paranoid of peasant uprisings, and limiting access to weaponry is a key way to control the masses and ensure their rule of law). I think the secrecy required to create and train with these weapons gave rise to mythical accounts of ninja and their ilk, because to train and wield these weapons and techniques openly would invite arrest or worse. And so the legend of these exotic weapons and their practitioners grew out of that.

(Incidentally, my favorite exotic Asian weapon would be the flying guillotine; basically a collapsible canvas that fits over a man's head with a ring of metal and retractable blades hidden within. The whole thing is thrown/wielded via a length of chain and once dropped on a victim's head, the user pulls the chain, the blades activate and theoretically decapitate the target; very complicated and most likely one of those surprise-attack-drop-from-above one-shot weapons but neat nonetheless.)

There are plenty of Western exotic weaponry, used in the context of open warfare to hunting and personal duels. The sheer number and variety of pole arms is just mind-boggling, for example, each one designed for a specific or variety of tasks, from pulling knights off their saddles to piercing armor or simply immobilizing a man. Combo-arms are also a good source of weirdly wonderful weapons, from sword-guns to Mr. Liebau's death glove there, heh. I've been to the Metropolitan Museum of Art in NY recently and they have a few pistol-swords, a large flintlock hunting cleaver, and a serrated saw blade sword on display there.
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