My first (mostly completed) hauberk -- myArmoury.com

C. Stackhouse

This is the first hauberk I have made, they are 1/4 inch id rings made of 14 ga galvanized steel.

As you can see they are sleeveless...in all my attempts at making sleeves I have found they are either far too baggy or binding on my arms.

Does anyone have some tips to help me finally complete it?... I've just started making mail and have tried almost all the online tutorials out there.

Photobucket image

Sorry for the crappy pics :P

Reinier van Noort · Posted: Tue 19 Jun, 2007 7:48 am Post subject:

The sleeves will fit better if the direction of the "lines" (horizontal on your body if you made the shirt right) is also horizontal on the arms with the arms held down. That means that the sleeves are not a continuation of the body part of the shirt. You can achieve this by making a diagonal contact on the shoulders where the orientation of the maille lines changes (which is easy to find on the internet how to do) or you can use this pattern (which I came across yesterday):

http://www.manningimperial.com/articles/Europ...uction.pdf

This seems to solve most if not all problems with sleeves.

Ed Toton · Posted: Tue 19 Jun, 2007 8:18 am Post subject:

Olivier L-Beaulieu · Posted: Tue 19 Jun, 2007 8:51 am Post subject:

First, I will say to you that your hauberk is really nice! For your sleeves, I would go with Ed's technique. Anyway, it seems that the two techniques are historically accurate or, at least, plausible.

Just for information, how much does it weight?

Elling Polden · Posted: Tue 19 Jun, 2007 9:00 am Post subject:

Robin Smith · Posted: Tue 19 Jun, 2007 9:21 am Post subject:

What are you going to be doing in this hauberk? By that I mean will you be fighting in it, or is it primarily for display? If you will be fighting in it, you will find alittle (not too much) loosness in it is your friend. Also, are you going short or long sleeve? Here is a pic of me in my hauberk that I fight in. It moves freely.
As far as the 45 degree sleeves go, I always thought that was a feature of mantle top hauberks. I'm no expert, but I don't believe the 45 degree sleeve is historical on the average T-style hauberk most reenactors wear.
(...and before anyone says anything, yes I have put a chinstrap on my helm since this was taken Razz

...)

Ed Toton · Posted: Tue 19 Jun, 2007 11:20 am Post subject:

Ed Toton · Posted: Tue 19 Jun, 2007 11:25 am Post subject:

Reinier van Noort · Posted: Tue 19 Jun, 2007 10:35 pm Post subject:

I meant to attach the sleeves in the normal T-shape only with a diagonal contact so that the orientation of the rings changes.
Like this: http://www.dcwireworks.com/howto/weaves/45degree1/instruct.html

We did that when we made some hauberks in our group, though I must admit that I never wore one of those as I had my won haubergeon...

C. Stackhouse · Posted: Wed 20 Jun, 2007 7:41 am Post subject:

Robin Smith · Posted: Wed 20 Jun, 2007 8:11 am Post subject:

Yes, assuming the sleeve is a simple tube design. Its the byproduct of the armpit being lower than the shoulder Wink

No, seriously they all do that unless you specifically use the 45 degree method, with shaped sleeves. You will notice Ed Toton's does the same over his vambrace
By the way, I would suggest either doing half sleeves or full sleeves. 3/4 seem to be fairly historically uncommon. In my period (11th C) half sleeves are the rule. Within 100 yrs, full sleeves were the rule. So things changed quickly, and there doesn't seem to be much in between in period depictions. Also if you start fighting in it, you will find it starts to bunch up in your elbow. Mine were longer by about 2 inches, and I cut them down for these reasons.

C. Stackhouse · Posted: Thu 21 Jun, 2007 6:27 am Post subject:

i know that 3/4 is historically inacurrate, I just wanted something that would cover most of my arms yet leave a lot of room between the end of the sleeve and my wrist.

If bunching is a big problem I might just take your advice. Hell, at the very least it would save a couple hundred rings. lol

Jared Smith · Posted: Thu 21 Jun, 2007 4:15 pm Post subject:

One of the historical solutions to the "bunching" problem was to tie leather thongs around the mail at forearm, upper arm, thigh, ankles, wrists, etc.. I doubt it will help armpit areas, but should make a difference at elbows, knees, etc.

This was recorded as early as the 1180's in a moral treatise on knightly conduct and equipment by Ralph Niger. I don't have the source but have seen it referred to by respectable authors such as David Crouch. This was carried out to an extent that it even was recorded as fashionable (early to mid 13th century) to leave long loose ends of the ties that would crack like whips while knights rode in earlier era tournaments.