[Elling Polden]

Hi

I'm looking for pictures/sources on the lobed bows found in some manuscripts, like for the ones found in the





While not truly "recurves" these bow have "lobes", similar to those founds on recurves. I can remember seeing similar pictures, but I'm having difficulties with remembering where...

[Stefan Toivonen]

Didn't really find any picture of similar "lobed" bows, but this site might have some pictures that might interest you.

http://www.obbit.se/nt/recurve/index.html

[Curt Cummins]

The lobes you see in the pictures are the siyahs. These bows are "static" recurves - the siyahs remain rigid and do not bend or uncurl as the ends on more modern "working" recurves. Note how the string is touching the siyahs after the archer has loosed the arrow. There are lines draws on the back of the bow in the first picture that seem to suggest a composite or at least a backed bow.

If the artist accurately depicted the bow, and medieval artists were not always the greatest for accurate detail and perspective, then the lobes are probably curves on the tips to prevent the string from slipping off the ends if the bow is overdrawn.

I use the same technique on wood laminate reflex/deflex bows that I make and back with silk or bamboo. Unlike the typical European self bow - example English yew longbow -which are made of single piece of wood. composite bows can be overdrawn without breaking.

Who are these pictures of and where, geographically , were they.

[Lafayette C Curtis]

I believe they're usually called ears instead of "lobes." You're referring to the small recurved/kinked part at the end, right?

And the sight of recurved bows in Europe isn't really that odd, not if you've looked at Carolingian art. Not to mention that English longbows--the archetypical European "simple" bow--sometimes has a recurve towards the end as well, especially if we count the horn string nocks attached to the ends of the staves.

[Jared Smith]

The two pictures in the original post look different enough (at least to me) to question if they are the same thing. The top picture really looks like static "ears" of Asian infantry (Turkish Indo-Persian) influence. http://www.primitiveways.com/pt-composite_bow.html
http://outdoors-magazine.com/s_article.php?id_article=199
http://www.atarn.org/islamic/akarpowicz/turkish_bows.htm

The second illustration might be fully functional recurve, but it is just a guess based on speculation. I would hesitate to group the two together as being conclusively the same style of bow.

[Curt Cummins]

Look at the knots on the second bow - these look like traditional Chinese or Mongol knots for the string loops. European
bows normally used a braided string loop ala Flemish twist with double loops or a loop on the upper limb and a bowyers knot on the lower.

Chinese and Mongol archers used an endless loop string often tied in very elaborate knots. The loops were longer than on a European bow to allow the siyah to work.

Some recurve bows, both modern and ancient, have straight limbs with only the tips curving forward like the first picture. This style of bow was not unknown to the Europeans and self bows can be recurved by using steam or direct heat to bend the tips.

I misspoke in my first post, it is the second picture that looks more like a composite bow with a set back handle. This would be the general style used by the Hungarians, Poles, Tatars, Turks, Chinese etc. Each culture had their own variations on the basic design - a short bow with rigid static siyahs - sinew backing - horn belly.

If the pictures are from an eastern European source then the bows would be typical, if they are from a western European source then they would definitely be more interesting.

[Elling Polden]

The pictures are from the maciowski bible, made in France around 1250.
http://www.medievaltymes.com/courtyard/maciejowski_bible.htm

The reason I'm asking is that an acquaintance of mine is going to write a master paper on the laminate bow fragments that have been found in Bergen, Norway.
There are at least strong indications that these are two-wood laminate bows with "ears"
These apparently where made with a backing of wood rather than horn. A 13th century manuscript mentions horn bows as well, so they would also be present in Norway in that period.

[Stefan Toivonen]

Found this interesting as this bow also seem to have some kind of ears on it.
It's a drawing of the findings in a tomb in Blucina. Found it on Patrick Bartas
site http://www.templ.net/english/making-blucina_sword.php.