[Michael Clark]

Hey folks,

I know there are plenty of schools/interpretions for fencing, such as with the German longsword, or naturally with the rapier. But I was curious: were there any historical texts which referred to any more advanced fighting systems in regards to say, the XIIa or XIIIa typology?

And furthermore, how would an armored soldier ended up employing these weapons the battlefield, if at all?

Edit: Changed for clarity

[George Hill]

[Tim Scott]

[George Hill]

[Stephen Hand]

You've had some good advice thus far.

Probably the closest material to how a medieval arming sword was used by itself is the Italian 16th century sources on the use of the spada solo. Unfortunately this material has yet to have anything accurate published on it. You could also look at the German messer stuff, but again, nothing published yet.

Silver's system which is written up in my book English Swordsmanship is similar in some ways to the Italian material but does rely to an extent on the presence of the basket. I know people who fence Silver well with arming swords and plate gauntlets, but it's not ideal.

If you want to add in a shield you're on better ground. Sword and buckler is covered in my book Medieval Sword and shield but be sure to pick up Spada II with the additional paper looking at changes and additions (interpretation is always a work in progress). Spada I and II also contain papers looking at the surviving sources for the use of arming swords with larger shields, so there's a range of material out there. The two volumes of Spada are available from Chivalry Bookshelf, like the other books mentioned.

Highland Broadsword contains later styles of basket hilted sword play and Highland Swordsmanship contains two 18th century sources on lighter weapons - so these may not be what you're after (they're good though).

I hope this helps.

Cheers
Stephen

[George Hill]

One more worthwile thing to note is that the people who released the Ochs Longsword DVD say they are getting ready to release their Messer DVD in English. It's not out yet, but once it is out, it's sure to be a must have.


The latest news on this was posted here.

http://forums.swordforum.com/showthread.php?t=65996

[Steven H]

[Matthew K. Shea]

Hi Michael. At the Academy of European Medieval Martial Arts, we study Fiore dei Liberi, whose teachings includes using the sword in one hand. He wrote around 1400, so using the two sword types you mentioned could certainly have been used by the students of Liberi, and would work very well with either of the two, I suspect. If you're ever in Toronto, you should check us out.

[Michael Clark]

I believe we are mixed up, due to my ignorance of proper terminology.

I am referring to the useage of massive swords, such as Albion's Baron, Duke, or even the Crecy. Those not having the same "finesse" as say, the Regent or Munich.

[Craig Peters]

There's really not a whole lot of difference between bigger swords like the one's you've mentioned and regular long swords. At least, there doesn't seem to be in the Liechtenauer tradition. The main difference is that the bigger swords obviously handle differently and are better suited to certain types of actions.

However, if you really want a manual which at least depicts larger swords, check out Goliath. I must warn you however that Goliath was most likely not intended to be specifically a "great sword" manual: http://www.schielhau.org/goliath.html and http://www.thearma.org/Manuals/Goliath/Goliath.htm

[Steven H]

I agree with Craig here, there doesn't seem to be a significant difference in the use of various lengths of longsword. The one possible exception is that such swords may lend themselves to half-sword techniques more readily or frequently. On the other hand Oakeshott describes these weapons, "German Great Swords", being used single-handed with a shield from horseback (in Archaeology of Weapons).

[Bill Grandy]

The thing about most weapon martial arts is that the majority are teaching full systems, which encompass many weapons. There are notable exceptions for weapons that are more specialized, though even those follow broad universal rules. So a single hander isn't completely different from a longsword, and a longsword isn't completely different from a full sized two-hander, and a full sized two hander isn't that different from a pole arm, etc. And then there's everything in between. Obviously they are all different weapons, but if you study a particular style, as opposed to a particular weapon, you will have a pretty good sense of how to use a sword whether it is a type XVa or a XIII or a XXa.

[Michael Clark]

Ah, that clears things up a lot.

Thanks, everyone.