Holbein dagger -- myArmoury.com

Toni R. · Posted: Thu 03 May, 2007 2:34 am Post subject: Holbein dagger

Hello.

I've been unusually productive lately...guess I've had nothing better to do, so here's a Holbein dagger I made last week. This was sort of a modification project, cause I had a big two-handed sword to sacrifice for this project. That sword was actually the first one I've ever made. It was made from a leafspring, like most of my recent blades. It was not historically acurate at any way(well, maybe something can be found if you use your imagination)and the whole construction was a bit poor.

A few words about the great sword:
Since the blade was made from a big leafspring, it had the mounting hole in the midlle of the blade. Back then, I straightened the blade without any kind of heat treating, and welded the hole. Due to this it wasn't going to be very durable in the first place, and eventually the blade started to curve back to it's original bended form. The crossguard was also welded together, like the pommel to the end of the tang. It wasn't too hard to dismantle the sword with a big hammer Razz

In the picture you can see the whole sword and the modification plan drawn to the blade. I thought that I would make two daggers out of it. One bigger, and other a bit smaller. I was gonna get rid of the welded hole by leaving it between the new blades, as seen in the picture. There's also a picture of the welded hole. You can see how it had started to crack around the welding.

On we go...
I cut the blade in two, and roughly shaped the two new blades. Then I heated and starightened the blades to remove the tension from the leafspring. When I first draw the new blades on to the old one, I thought the smaller was going to be a Holbein(didn't know the name back then...just remembered the looks somewhere). I continued working with the Holbein since I had no time to do both. The bigger daggerblade is still waiting for some more planning. Propably it will be more like a small sword, rather than a dagger.

I had pictures taken from the internet, which I used as a reference to make the Holbein-dagger. This project might be historically the most accurate, considering the items I've made so far. I had no spesific measures, so the proportions are roughly based to the pictures I had. The blade might be a bit too wide, and the handle a bit too long...but not still too far from the historical, I think. The tang is riveted with a nut. I believe the tang on the original dagger is threated, but since I had no proper tools for that, I took a little shortcut.

Again I bathed with blood, sweat and tears trying to make a square hole to the crossguard with my, yet so famous, "simple tools"...Meaning electric hand-drill, and small file. In whole, the project took me about three 12-hour days to finish.

I'm planning to make a scabbard for this dagger too, but I haven't gone any further with that yet. Oh, and the handle is made of dyed ashwood...it could have been something harder, I think...and the blade could still be polished a bit more

Some measurements:
OA length: 39cm
Hilt length: 13cm
Blade length: 25,5cm
Blade width: 4,2cm
CG Width: 8cm

Any comments are welcome, as usual.

Enjoy(or don't, if you dislike it)

Wink

-T

Toni R. · Posted: Thu 03 May, 2007 2:43 am Post subject:

Of course I had to put the pictures in a reversed order...just to notice.

Nick Winley · Posted: Thu 03 May, 2007 4:40 am Post subject:

Fantastic!

Your usual combination of simple lines and elegant proportions.

Nick.

Johan S. Moen · Posted: Thu 03 May, 2007 4:50 am Post subject:

Toni, allow me to congratulate you! That dagger looks superb! Nice lines and clean looking. Happy

And now I have some inspiration to continue on my knife and the scabbard for it. Now where did that boxwood go...

Johan Schubert Moen

Korey J. Lavoie · Posted: Thu 03 May, 2007 5:03 am Post subject:

I like it, it's very cleanly put together but not so much so that it doesn't look Hand-made. Good job.
May I ask what forging and tempering methods you used? Did you just draw temper colors? Or did you use a more exotic method?

Toni R. · Posted: Thu 03 May, 2007 5:22 am Post subject:

Korey J. Lavoie · Posted: Thu 03 May, 2007 5:55 am Post subject:

Oh . . . Sorry if my comment came off as being rather snobbish. I've studied the methods of making High-performance knives for years now, so I'm always looking at any kind of Bladesmithing from that perspective. On the plus side, if you want some good information on the subject of how can you try more intensive projects on a budget, I should be able to help.

Toni R. · Posted: Thu 03 May, 2007 6:03 am Post subject:

Not snobbish at all...doesn't hurt to ask.

I also like the art of bladesmithing in its basic form, meaning anvil and hammer -despite the fact that I haven't practiced it for a while. This is a good place to share knowledge with other enthusiasts, so I appriciate your offers. Maybe I'll get back to you with my future projects. Thanks in advance Wink

-T

Korey J. Lavoie · Posted: Thu 03 May, 2007 6:20 am Post subject:

I'd be glad too. I have a gorgeous old Farriers rasp lying around that I'm eager to get to work on myself. I intend to try shaping it only by forging with hammer and flatter and just sanding the edge bevel. It'll be interesting to see how it will come out and I'm sure I'll have fun doing it, after all, few things are more Beautiful then the colors of heated steel. I'll be sure to post pictures of the finished project of course.

Hugh Fuller · Posted: Thu 03 May, 2007 8:34 am Post subject:

I am not all that familiar with Holbein Daggers, but I have nver seen the sort of file work on the pommel and guard that you have done. I rather like it and am wondering about its historicity.

Toni R. · Posted: Thu 03 May, 2007 9:21 am Post subject:

I guess the filework I've done here is mostly based on the WWII german style holbein, from which I found more pictures of...and close-up pictures especially. One picture attached. The original holbeins might have been without this kind of details(?) Well, anyway, it was easier to find pictures of the german ones.

-T

Korey J. Lavoie · Posted: Thu 03 May, 2007 11:43 pm Post subject:

I find it kind of sad that such a genuinely attractive Knife design now has such an unpleasant association. It's good to see that people still appreciate the Holbein Daggers esthetic's in spite of that.

Bruno Giordan · Posted: Fri 04 May, 2007 2:01 am Post subject:

Dan Dickinson · Industry Professional

You definitely have talent....it looks very nice.
As far as the filework, I can't speak from personal experience and haven't had the time to look through my sources for examples of originals...but a Holbein reproduction that used to be in Nathan's collection has very similar filework.....maybe Nathan can weigh in on the inspirations the smith used in creating it.
http://www.myArmoury.com/dagg_jfs_holb.html
Hope this helps,
Dan

Hugh Fuller · Posted: Fri 04 May, 2007 8:12 am Post subject:

I should be interested as well as I really do like the Holbein dagger design and also like th efile work, but do not wish to be too closely identified with the later uses to which the design was put. And, yes, that was a damned shame and a sin in more ways than I can describe.

I have read that the design, which had been something of a national symbol for Switzerland, is now banned in that nation as a result of its use by the NAZIs. I wonder if that is really true.

Chad Arnow · myArmoury Team

Before this goes any further, let me say that this forum is not for discussing or debating the good or ills of current or past regimes/governments/parties of any kind.

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