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Jonathan Hopkins
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 Posted: Sat 14 Apr, 2007 5:39 pm Post subject: Images from the Victoria & Albert Museum |
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I was disappointed by my recent visit to the V&A because I learned that their amazing arms and armour collection has been put into storage. There are a few pieces scattered throughout the other exhibits. The following images depict the arms that are still on display at the V&A. First up is a nice "Twysden" style basket hilt. (I forgot to take a photo of the information card--sorry!) Please enjoy and discuss!
Jonathan
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Jonathan Hopkins
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| Posted: Sat 14 Apr, 2007 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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Next is a lovely English buff coat c,1640-1650.
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Randall Moffett
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| Posted: Sun 15 Apr, 2007 12:38 am Post subject: |
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Nice picture. I imagine not many items like that have survived. Gives a good variation to the plain jane ones that are seen often.
That is funny they have arms and armour. When there last I asked a guide and he said they had nothing of that nature except what was out. Very interesting. Do you know of what things they have there hidden away?
RPM
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Thomas McDonald
myArmoury Alumni
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| Posted: Sun 15 Apr, 2007 6:48 am Post subject: |
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Nice pics, Jonathan !
Always interesting to see other swords of this type !
It's a shame the V&A has packed away so much of its collection, but I suppose not everyone cares for the A&A end of things ?
Attached is your V&A example (on the left) next to the Met's "Twysden" piece.
I got to handle & photograph 2 others of this type, one at the Glasgow Reserve and another in the Burrell collection, and they are quite cool in their silver encrusted detail !
Thanks for sharing, Mac
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'Gott Bewahr Die Oprechte Schotten'
XX ANDRIA XX FARARA XX
Mac's PictureTrail
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Allan Senefelder
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Sun 15 Apr, 2007 7:24 am Post subject: |
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Randal, the V&A has a very nice selection of items, more pieces rather than wholes as far as armour goes, but very nice none the less. I have a little book (5"x8" about 50 pages) entitled European Armour, Victoria & Albert Museum, with pictures of 44 different items of armour including sketch books.
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Jonathan Hopkins
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| Posted: Sun 15 Apr, 2007 7:33 am Post subject: |
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| Randall Moffett wrote: | | That is funny they have arms and armour. When there last I asked a guide and he said they had nothing of that nature except what was out. Very interesting. Do you know of what things they have there hidden away? |
It has been 12 years since I was last in the V&A. Several of the younger attendants had never heard of the arms and armour exhibit. My guess is that is was packed up some time in the late 90s(?). IIRC, the collection included Medieval through 18th century pieces. The most striking image I can remember is two cases that were perhaps 10'x12' that were brimming with smallswords from the J.D. Aylward collection (Aylward is the author of The Small-Sword in England). There are several examples of their arms and armour illusrtared in the Coe edited book Swords and Hilt Weapons. I am surprised that the collection is in hiding since I would think that the average visitor would find arms and armour to be more interesting than and extensive display of wrought iron gates, fences, and architectural pieces, but then again I may be completely out of touch with the average visitor.
Jonathan
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Jonathan Hopkins
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| Posted: Sun 15 Apr, 2007 7:38 am Post subject: |
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| Thomas McDonald wrote: | | Attached is your V&A example (on the left) next to the Met's "Twysden" piece. |
Mac,
Thanks for the comparison and your compliment. It's interesting to note that the hilt on the V&A example does not attach to the pommel as does the Met's Twysden. The Met's also has a much more pronouced tang button. I think I prefer the decoration on the V&A example's blade, though!
Jonathan
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Jonathan Hopkins
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| Posted: Sun 15 Apr, 2007 7:41 am Post subject: |
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| Allan Senefelder wrote: | | Randal, the V&A has a very nice selection of items, more pieces rather than wholes as far as armour goes, but very nice none the less. I have a little book (5"x8" about 50 pages) entitled European Armour, Victoria & Albert Museum, with pictures of 44 different items of armour including sketch books. |
Allan,
Great sleuthing! I forgot about that publication. The V&A and Anthony North also produced another book along the same lines entitled An Introduction to Islamic Arms, in which much of the museum's collection is illustrated.
Jonathan
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Thomas McDonald
myArmoury Alumni
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| Posted: Sun 15 Apr, 2007 7:48 am Post subject: |
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I posted a bunch of b&W images of some of the rapiers & small swords in the V&A collection, taken from the little booklet by J.F. Hayward, 1951, in one of my user albums at the following link:
http://www.myArmoury.com/albums/thumbnails.ph...amp;page=3
Mac
'Gott Bewahr Die Oprechte Schotten'
XX ANDRIA XX FARARA XX
Mac's PictureTrail
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Jonathan Hopkins
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| Posted: Sun 15 Apr, 2007 8:07 am Post subject: |
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To me, those images make the case for resurrecting the arms and armour display at the V&A. Yes, the V&A is somewhat unique in that it has a certain focus on the decorative arts, but I think there is room for arms and armour within that focus.
Jonathan
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Jonathan Hopkins
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| Posted: Sun 15 Apr, 2007 8:11 am Post subject: |
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Today's image is a nice scabbard from 1498:
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Thomas McDonald
myArmoury Alumni
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| Posted: Sun 15 Apr, 2007 8:29 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I think I prefer the decoration on the V&A example's blade, though! - Jonathan |
Jonathan, any idea what the blades inscription reads ?
Thanks again, Mac
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'Gott Bewahr Die Oprechte Schotten'
XX ANDRIA XX FARARA XX
Mac's PictureTrail
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Randall Moffett
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| Posted: Sun 15 Apr, 2007 11:18 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the info. I will ask around and see what I can dig up. It is a sad aspect of our time that so much good armour and arms end up as storage material. I was so suprised to see what the BM had in storage. shelves full of swords and many nice boses. I guess in their case they do have alot out though and just do not have the space for more though. The V and A, they have plenty of space for it, just take out the.....
Mac,
It looks like regere to me for the first word of the first line. The next might be a number (60 something?) but I cannot read more than a few letters of it. Regere is the infinitive for to guide or to direct.
RPM
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Jonathan Hopkins
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| Posted: Sun 15 Apr, 2007 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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Here is the original image size and a 125% enlargement:
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Merv Cannon
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| Posted: Sun 15 Apr, 2007 4:35 pm Post subject: V & A Sword |
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Hi everyone, Thomas...how you doin ? I ran the image through Photoshop and as far as I can tell, the script says.........
"REGERE SEITSXM. VSI
SVMMA SAPLENGESO "
I am fairly sure that 90% of this is accurate., though the first line is somewhat cryptic.
Cheers !
Merv ....... KOLR
http://www.lionrampant.com.au/
"Then let slip the dogs of war ! "......Woof !
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Gabriele C.
Location: Roma,Italia Joined: 09 Apr 2007
Posts: 38
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| Posted: Sun 15 Apr, 2007 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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REGERE SEIPSUM SUMMA SAPIENT(IA). EST
There are a couple of possible traslations and sound like:
May this sword be handled with the gratest wisdom
(or)
May you be driven by the greatest wisdom
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Randall Moffett
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| Posted: Sun 15 Apr, 2007 10:50 pm Post subject: |
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Now that makes sense. How on earth can you read that? Man thats good. I spend long days reading old manuscripts in medieval shorthand and could not get it. Good job!
RPM
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Gabriele C.
Location: Roma,Italia Joined: 09 Apr 2007
Posts: 38
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| Posted: Mon 16 Apr, 2007 12:19 am Post subject: |
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| Gabriele C. wrote: | REGERE SEIPSUM SUMMA SAPIENT(IA). EST
There are a couple of possible traslations and sound like:
May this sword be handled with the gratest wisdom
(or)
May you be driven by the greatest wisdom |
I apologize. I made an horrible mistake because i forgot "est" in the traslation. Errata corrige:
"The greatest wisdom is to drive ourself"
It means that the most important kwoledge is know how to drive our mind and body.
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Gabriele C.
Location: Roma,Italia Joined: 09 Apr 2007
Posts: 38
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| Posted: Mon 16 Apr, 2007 12:32 am Post subject: |
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| Randall Moffett wrote: | Now that makes sense. How on earth can you read that? Man thats good. I spend long days reading old manuscripts in medieval shorthand and could not get it. Good job!
RPM |
thanks Randall.I used to traslate from roman monuments or tombs (there are a billion only in Roma). There a lot of letters are very hard to understand , especially because there isnt space between the words and because acient latin is ten times harder than "volgar" latin. Thus this iscription seemed to me clear since the first look. Anyway this afternoon i'm going to search on the book of Iacopo Gelli "Guida del racccoglietore e dell'amatore di armi antiche" (1900) if there are other swords with this iscription.
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Thomas McDonald
myArmoury Alumni
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| Posted: Mon 16 Apr, 2007 6:24 am Post subject: |
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Thank you, gentlemen, nice work !
I knew our gang here was up to the challenge :-) Slàinte, Mac
'Gott Bewahr Die Oprechte Schotten'
XX ANDRIA XX FARARA XX
Mac's PictureTrail
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This is a standard topic