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Justin Pasternak




Location: West Springfield, Massachusetts
Joined: 17 Sep 2006

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PostPosted: Mon 09 Apr, 2007 12:34 pm    Post subject: Single-Shot Crossbows vs. Repeating Crossbows         Reply with quote

The advantages and disadvantages between the Single-Shot Crossbow and Repeating Crossbow?

I've seen video's and read books on various types of crossbows (how they function, their reliabilty, accuracy, etc.) and I would like to hear anyone's comments/opinions of the pros and cons between these two particular types of crossbows?
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Bruno Giordan





Joined: 28 Sep 2005

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PostPosted: Mon 09 Apr, 2007 2:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Single-Shot Crossbows vs. Repeating Crossbows         Reply with quote

Justin Pasternak wrote:
The advantages and disadvantages between the Single-Shot Crossbow and Repeating Crossbow?

I've seen video's and read books on various types of crossbows (how they function, their reliabilty, accuracy, etc.) and I would like to hear anyone's comments/opinions of the pros and cons between these two particular types of crossbows?


repeating crosbows are a modern invention i teh West.

There was an old chinese repeating type that I saw a lot of time ago in the National Geographic magazine, nothig simila in the european countries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repeating_crossbow

A modern american repeating crossbow project can be found here.

http://www.vintageprojects.com/archery/cross-bow-plans.html

pdf plans available.

If you succeed in making one let me know ..
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Lafayette C Curtis




Location: Indonesia
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PostPosted: Mon 09 Apr, 2007 9:06 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The Wikipedia article says it all. When we look at the versions small enough to be personal weapons, the ordinary Chinese crossbow has a much greater penetrative power than the Chinese repeating crossbow but suffers from a lower reload rate. In general, it seems that the ordinary crossbow is preferred for open battles while the repeating crossbows come into their own in the defense of fortified positions.
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Bruno Giordan





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PostPosted: Tue 10 Apr, 2007 12:42 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

[quote=\"Lafayette C Curtis\"]The Wikipedia article says it all. When we look at the versions small enough to be personal weapons, the ordinary Chinese crossbow has a much greater penetrative power than the Chinese repeating crossbow but suffers from a lower reload rate. In general, it seems that the ordinary crossbow is preferred for open battles while the repeating crossbows come into their own in the defense of fortified positions.[/quote]

Sometimes wikipedia gets it right ...

BTW, did you understand anything of the american project?

Maybe I\'m getting old but it didn\'t look clear to me at a first examination.
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Justin Pasternak




Location: West Springfield, Massachusetts
Joined: 17 Sep 2006

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PostPosted: Tue 10 Apr, 2007 5:49 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks again everyone for your input for this topic! Happy
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Lafayette C Curtis




Location: Indonesia
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PostPosted: Tue 10 Apr, 2007 8:40 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

From the description in the site, it looks like the American project is essentially a crossbow operated like either a lever-action rifle (say, the Winchester) or a pump-action shotgun. I haven't had the chance to look at the detailed plans myself so I can't be sure which one is really the case here.
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Jon Kemper





Joined: 25 Nov 2006

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PostPosted: Tue 10 Apr, 2007 9:46 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I think Mr. Curtis got it right. From what I can gather, it's a pump action weapon. The last picture in the PDF shows a pump that, when pulled back, recocks the string and loads another bolt into place. The trigger simply pulls down on a presumably spring loaded block to release the string. I found it interesting that it's a top feed design. It makes sense though, as you don't have to have a sping to feed the bolts into place like a modern magazine. Good old reliable gravity takes care of that.

On second inspection, it looks like the pump handle actually becomes the firing block I mentioned earlyer, actually staying in the rear position till the weapon is fired. The bolts themselves look like they have a notch cut halfway down their length for the string to set in. That's the first time I've seen something like that, all the crossbows I've seen get pushed from the back like a regular arrow. It's quite the impressive feat of design.

I don't know enought about period manufacturing techniques to make a call on whether or not it could be built. The only problem I can really see would be the screws.

I appologise for my ramblings. I've had too much caffene, so my engineering student side has taken over my brain. Happy

I have a catapult. Give me all your money, or I will fling an enormous rock at your head.
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Lafayette C Curtis




Location: Indonesia
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PostPosted: Wed 11 Apr, 2007 1:40 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jon Kemper wrote:
The bolts themselves look like they have a notch cut halfway down their length for the string to set in. That's the first time I've seen something like that, all the crossbows I've seen get pushed from the back like a regular arrow. It's quite the impressive feat of design.

I don't know enought about period manufacturing techniques to make a call on whether or not it could be built. The only problem I can really see would be the screws.


Indeed? Very interesting. I should go and take a look at those plans myself. Many crossbow bolts didn't even have a nock, and if this one has a "nock" at such an unusual place then it's definitely a design worth looking at.

As for the practicality of building such a crossbow, it seems like the plans are not meant to be done with pre-industrial technology anyway. They're made to be constructed with the tools and technical know-how available to a 20th-century society, especially since the similes and comparisons involved refer frequently to modern firearms.
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Kerim Mamedov




Location: Poland
Joined: 21 Mar 2007

Posts: 53

PostPosted: Wed 11 Apr, 2007 6:04 am    Post subject: Re: Single-Shot Crossbows vs. Repeating Crossbows         Reply with quote

I think, that fakt, that repet crossbow newer maked a career (thoud nown long time ago) shows that single soot one did beter, probabely repeated one had to be light, loosing range and impact power.
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Kerim Mamedov




Location: Poland
Joined: 21 Mar 2007

Posts: 53

PostPosted: Wed 11 Apr, 2007 6:09 am    Post subject: Re: Single-Shot Crossbows vs. Repeating Crossbows         Reply with quote

and the only advantage of repeated crosbow - frequency - was easely substituted with numbers of wariors - especialy in China Wink
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Jean Henri Chandler




Location: New Orleans
Joined: 20 Nov 2006

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PostPosted: Wed 11 Apr, 2007 7:34 am    Post subject: Re: Single-Shot Crossbows vs. Repeating Crossbows         Reply with quote

Kerim Mamedov wrote:
and the only advantage of repeated crosbow - frequency - was easely substituted with numbers of wariors - especialy in China Wink


The repeating crossbow had to be light, thats correct, but thats not the only problem with it. Nevertheless they were popular and remained in use in China until the 19th century. You can see several photos of old ones around on the web.

This is a photo you see a lot



The biggest problem is that the historical designs anyway, had to use bolts or quarrels which had no fletchings, which vastly detracts from accuracy. So you have very light very innacurate darts. The Chinese made them more effective by using poison apparently.

The Greeks had some kind of repeating crossbow as well I believe, probably very similar to the Chinese one.

Basically I think they were not used in the west because they were too light to really be effective against armored targets, and just didn't have that instant killing power which they Europeans seemed to demand. And really the European tribes and states didn't really use bows of any kind all that much until toward the end of the classical period. Javelins remained the most common missile weapon until the rise of the heavy crossbow and the longbow in the early middle ages. Both very powerful weapons.

Jean

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