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Nathan Robinson
myArmoury Admin
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 Posted: Fri 25 Aug, 2006 5:44 pm Post subject: Two-handed poleaxe from the British Museum |
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This was posted by William M in another topic. I've split it into its own.
It is a two-handed pole-axe from the British Museum.
The museum card says this:
Steel two-handed poll-axe, the quillon block engraved with the arms of the Commonwealth
English, about 1619-53
Here is a photo I took of it last year:
[ Linked Image ]
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Shawn Henthorn
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| Posted: Fri 25 Aug, 2006 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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:wtf: It looks like a really demented Tuck
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Keith Culbertson
Location: Columbus, OH Joined: 09 Aug 2006
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Sat 26 Aug, 2006 9:52 am Post subject: |
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I really like this very interesting warhammer---but do you recall its date? Has anyone ever seen it reproduced, or anything like it?
Keith
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Steve Grisetti
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| Posted: Sat 26 Aug, 2006 10:04 am Post subject: |
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| Shawn Henthorn wrote: | | ... It looks like a really demented Tuck |
Actually, I think it is a neat idea, so maybe that makes me demented :D . But point control when you use it as a tuck might be a little more difficult with all of that mass out near the tip.
"...dismount thy tuck, be yare in thy preparation, for thy assailant is quick, skilful, and deadly."
- Sir Toby Belch
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Alex Oster
Location: Washington and Yokohama Joined: 01 Mar 2004
Posts: 410
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| Posted: Sat 26 Aug, 2006 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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It really looks like a civilian remount from battlefield debris.
The size dosen't seem long enough for a pole axe, but maybe as a tourney/joust weapon? I could see it as a that more.
The pen is mightier than the sword, especially since it can get past security and be stabbed it into a jugular.
This site would be better if everytime I clicked submit... I got to hear a whip crack!
My collection: Various Blades & Conan related
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Michael R. Black
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| Posted: Sat 26 Aug, 2006 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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I can get some idea of size by the other items in the picture, but I'd be curious to know it's exact dimensions.
Michael
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Sean Flynt
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Russ Ellis
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Mon 28 Aug, 2006 11:09 am Post subject: |
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There's always something new isn't there? It seems like this thing ought to be called a two handed hammer or something though, since I do not see an axe head there at all...
TRITONWORKS Custom Scabbards
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Sean Flynt
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Nathan Robinson
myArmoury Admin
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Russ Ellis
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Mon 28 Aug, 2006 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Nathan Robinson wrote: |
Poleaxes don't always have axe heads. In fact, most do not. |
Really? I'd always thought a pole axe was a rather specific configuration. That is an axe head, a back spike or hammer and usually a top spike. A polehammer on the other hand would be something with a back spike, a hammer face and perhaps a top spike. Interesting. I will consult Waldman and see what he has to say on the subject as well as Oakeshott...
For the moment:
Poleaxe, pollaxe, polaxe: "A knightly staff weapon, its head being an axehead, usually balanced by a hammerhead, and surmounted by a steel spike. The shaft was protected by steel checks and the hand by a steel rondel. Used from the fifteenth century for foot combats and for war. The component 'pole' in the name refers not to the staff, but to the Old English word 'head.'"-David Edge and John Miles Paddock, Arms and Armour of the Medieval Knight.
Which seems reasonable since one would expect his axe to be an axe... :)
Of course the definitions of any and all pole arms have always been a bit fluid I suppose. Do a lot of you all see a poll axe as often not having an axe blade?
TRITONWORKS Custom Scabbards
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Russ Ellis
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Mon 28 Aug, 2006 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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Hmm a little more online looking and I find Henry the VIIIs pollaxe armor supposedly displayed with a pollaxe...
[ Linked Image ]
Which I would have called a bec de corbyn.... curiouser and curiouser... it may be that I am merely a victim of our ancestors not bothering to get really very specific about things. A modern habit perhaps...
TRITONWORKS Custom Scabbards
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Nathan Robinson
myArmoury Admin
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Russ Ellis
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Mon 28 Aug, 2006 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Nathan Robinson wrote: | | A bec de corbyn is a form of poleaxe. I'll dig up further detailed info for you in about a week. |
<thumb up> Cool Nathan thanks!
TRITONWORKS Custom Scabbards
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Fabrice Cognot
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Tue 29 Aug, 2006 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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I lectured last October for the second IAAC in Vienna about the history of the poleaxe.
And I must say Nate is right :)
Even in the Burgundian treatise Le Jeu de la Hache, the weapon used has a hammer head, back spike (called bec de faucon) and top spike. Also, in the earlier Fior di Battaglia by Fiore dei Liberi, his Azza is of the same type. In Talhoffer too...
Same again, nearly all the poleaxes mentionned in the various Pas d'Armes that took place in Burgundy in the XVth century were of the 'hammer' type.
Fab
PhD in medieval archeology.
HEMAC member
De Taille et d'Estoc director
Maker of high quality historical-inspired pieces.
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Chuck Wyatt
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| Posted: Tue 29 Aug, 2006 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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I saw something very similar at the Tower of London a couple of years ago.
Sadly no description was next to it.
[url]http://home.comcast.net/~c-wyatt/fullhammer.jpg [/url]
[url]http://home.comcast.net/~c-wyatt/hammerhead.jpg[/url]
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George Hill
Location: Atlanta Ga Joined: 16 May 2005
Posts: 614
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| Posted: Sat 02 Sep, 2006 6:55 am Post subject: |
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| Russ Ellis wrote: | | Nathan Robinson wrote: |
Poleaxes don't always have axe heads. In fact, most do not. |
Poleaxe, pollaxe, polaxe: "A knightly staff weapon, its head being an axehead, usually balanced by a hammerhead, and surmounted by a steel spike. The shaft was protected by steel checks and the hand by a steel rondel. Used from the fifteenth century for foot combats and for war. The component 'pole' in the name refers not to the staff, but to the Old English word 'head.'"-David Edge and John Miles Paddock, Arms and Armour of the Medieval Knight.
Which seems reasonable since one would expect his axe to be an axe... :)
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Russ, the correct term isn't pole axe. It's Pollax, which isn't english and roughy translates as 'head crusher' or some such. (Can someone here give us a better translation?)
But as we so often do, we have modified the term to modern english, 'pole axe' since that does describe what many of them were. The term pole axe is a good term, but we should know the root isn't the same term.
To abandon your shield is the basest of crimes. - --Tacitus on Germania
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Al Muckart
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| Posted: Sat 02 Sep, 2006 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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| George Hill wrote: |
Russ, the correct term isn't pole axe. It's Pollax, which isn't english and roughy translates as 'head crusher' or some such. (Can someone here give us a better translation?)
But as we so often do, we have modified the term to modern english, 'pole axe' since that does describe what many of them were. The term pole axe is a good term, but we should know the
root isn't the same term. |
Fascinating. Do you know which language pollax comes from?
--
Al.
http://wherearetheelves.net
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Geoff Wood
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| Posted: Sat 02 Sep, 2006 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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Poll is english for head, as in poll tax, redpoll, polling etc.. Ax is english for axe (or a metathesis for ask, but the former version seems more probable in this context). As for not having an axe blade as we conventionally recognise it now, neither does a dagger axe. Maybe it was some reference to a 'nasty bit that you use at right angles to the shaft', or maybe they all started with axe heads and the name stuck when the blade didn't. We still call people plumbers, though copper and plastic have long since replaced lead.
Geoff
Edit: and then there's the pickaxe ............
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George Hill
Location: Atlanta Ga Joined: 16 May 2005
Posts: 614
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| Posted: Sat 02 Sep, 2006 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Al Muckart wrote: | | George Hill wrote: |
Russ, the correct term isn't pole axe. It's Pollax, which isn't english and roughy translates as 'head crusher' or some such. (Can someone here give us a better translation?)
But as we so often do, we have modified the term to modern english, 'pole axe' since that does describe what many of them were. The term pole axe is a good term, but we should know the
root isn't the same term. |
Fascinating. Do you know which language pollax comes from? |
Er, Strike that, it is English, but it's old or middle Engish, which isn't like modern English.
Bear in mind that "ye olde whatevere" isn't old, but middle English. Middle is much MUCH closer then old.
To abandon your shield is the basest of crimes. - --Tacitus on Germania
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This is a standard topic