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William P
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Posted: Sun 16 Aug, 2015 6:09 am Post subject: 'roman' scale armour and helmet |
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https://www.pinterest.com/pin/332984966176375382/ interesting scale armour here, the scales look kinda normal enough, if a bit big, what is odd is the plates around the arm openings
does anyone kn ow where this piece is displayed, does anyone have more information? is it genuine?
the helmet looks more normal so im not worried about that one though i cant quite place the period
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Matthew Amt
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Posted: Sun 16 Aug, 2015 6:31 am Post subject: |
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H. Russell Robison says the armor was "assembled in 1934 from pieces said to have been found by Lake Trasimene." That's *said* to have been found... No telling what the date might be, though there's nothing I can see that would prevent the scales from being Roman. The pieces at the shoulders, neck, and armholes may be pure guesswork, or modern fabrications.
This is in the Royal Ontario Museum in Canada.
The helmet is a fake, I'd say. Maybe Victorian, but not Roman.
Matthew
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Eric S
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Posted: Sun 16 Aug, 2015 6:33 am Post subject: Re: 'roman' scale armour and helmet |
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William P wrote: | https://www.pinterest.com/pin/332984966176375382/ interesting scale armour here, the scales look kinda normal enough, if a bit big, what is odd is the plates around the arm openings
does anyone kn ow where this piece is displayed, does anyone have more information? is it genuine?
the helmet looks more normal so im not worried about that one though i cant quite place the period |
It is supposed to be in the Royal Ontario Museum, Canada.
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Eric S
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Dan Howard
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Posted: Sun 16 Aug, 2015 7:24 am Post subject: |
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Scales that large are usually used on horses. They probably didn't come from a corselet. The neck and shoulder pieces don't belong.
Author: Bronze Age Military Equipment, Pen and Sword Books
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Gregory J. Liebau
Location: Dinuba, CA Joined: 27 Nov 2004
Posts: 669
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Posted: Sun 16 Aug, 2015 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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Here are photos I snapped of it and the displayed description a couple of years ago.
-Gregory
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Matthew Amt
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Posted: Sun 16 Aug, 2015 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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Aha! Thanks guys! Presumably that all happened since Robinson was published. Good to know the ROM is on top of things.
Hey, why aren't all those *real* Roman scales in the display case?
Matthew
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Eric S
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Posted: Sun 16 Aug, 2015 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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From the museum.
[ Linked Image ]
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Len Parker
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Posted: Tue 18 Aug, 2015 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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Yale Univercity has the Dura-Europas scales: http://artgallery.yale.edu/collection/search
Do a search for Syrian scales. There's probably 50 pages of scales here.
Some measurements for the big scales:
W 4.7cm L 8cm
W 4.7cm L 7.9cm
W 4.7cm L 6.5cm
W 4.3cm L 5.9cm
W 3.7cm L 4.8cm
W 3.3cm L 5.2cm
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Mart Shearer
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Posted: Tue 18 Aug, 2015 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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Nice link, Len! A search for "armor" yields over 1400 hits.
ferrum ferro acuitur et homo exacuit faciem amici sui
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Anton de Vries
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Posted: Mon 07 Dec, 2015 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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Actual Roman scales from the museum (Allard Pierson Museum, Amsterdam) where I work.
For a sense of "scale": it's the middle patch in the background of picture 2.
Sadly I have no info other than that it's Roman.
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Gregory J. Liebau
Location: Dinuba, CA Joined: 27 Nov 2004
Posts: 669
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Posted: Tue 08 Dec, 2015 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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Speaking of, I saw two examples of Roman "scale armour" (I would argue both examples appear to be lamellar) at the Archaeological Museum of Zagreb a few months back... The following information is presented on museum display cards.
"Scale armour, Sisak (Siscia), 1st century AD"
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"Scale armour fragment, Sotin (Cornacum), late 2nd - 3rd century AD"
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Shahril Dzulkifli
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Posted: Thu 17 Dec, 2015 6:04 am Post subject: 'Roman' scale armour and helmet |
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[ Linked Image ]
The Trasimeno armour, nicknamed the Legolas armour for having scales just like the armour worn by Legolas (Orlando Bloom) in the Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit films.
No one knows who the original wearer is until now.
Roman legionaries don't wear such thing, though.
“You have power over your mind - not outside events. Realize this, and you will find strength”
- Marcus Aurelius
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Mart Shearer
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Gregory J. Liebau
Location: Dinuba, CA Joined: 27 Nov 2004
Posts: 669
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Posted: Thu 17 Dec, 2015 7:56 am Post subject: |
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Mart Shearer wrote: | The early 3rd century a.d. Roman scale fragment from Carpow, Scotland still attached to linen twill backing, 6-holes per scale. |
Awesome. That looks a lot like the example I posted from Sisak. I bet this was rather attractive stuff... I don't research Roman reenactment much any more, so can't say whether there are people out there reproducing this sort of scale with accuracy. Would be neat to see!
-Gregory
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Dan Howard
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Posted: Thu 17 Dec, 2015 12:34 pm Post subject: Re: 'Roman' scale armour and helmet |
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Shahril Dzulkifli wrote: | The Trasimeno armour, nicknamed the Legolas armour for having scales just like the armour worn by Legolas (Orlando Bloom) in the Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit films.
No one knows who the original wearer is until now.
Roman legionaries don't wear such thing, though. |
Nobody wore such a thing. This armour is either a dodgy reconstruction or a fake.
Author: Bronze Age Military Equipment, Pen and Sword Books
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Shahril Dzulkifli
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Posted: Sun 20 Dec, 2015 5:20 pm Post subject: 'Roman' scale armour and helmet |
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I guess that's the truth behind the Trasimeno armour.
“You have power over your mind - not outside events. Realize this, and you will find strength”
- Marcus Aurelius
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M. Lanteigne
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Location: Southern Ontario, Canada Joined: 16 Oct 2011
Posts: 30
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Posted: Mon 21 Dec, 2015 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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This armour from the ROM had been known to be an incorrect attribution to the Roman army for a while. At least for 2 or 3 years. They seem to keep it there out of embarrassment.
"Iron Sharpens Iron"
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Randall Moffett
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Posted: Tue 22 Dec, 2015 10:46 am Post subject: |
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Are we sure it is not used by a non roman group Dan? Do you think in art when they have such depictions they are just artistic style?
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Matthew Amt
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Posted: Tue 22 Dec, 2015 11:02 am Post subject: |
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Randall Moffett wrote: | Are we sure it is not used by a non roman group Dan? Do you think in art when they have such depictions they are just artistic style? |
I think he only meant this particular cuirass! "Dodgy" is a good word for its size and construction.
Matthew
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