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Considering all of this week's latest additions, please rate the quality of our efforts.
Excellent
89%
 89%  [ 61 ]
Very Good
8%
 8%  [ 6 ]
Good
1%
 1%  [ 1 ]
Fair
0%
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Poor
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Total Votes : 68

Author Message
Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Mon 22 Jan, 2007 12:00 am    Post subject: Jan 22: myArmoury.com news and updates         Reply with quote

Today's update:


Sword Blade Hardness: the current research

An article by Craig Johnson


Manning Imperial Type XXa Longsword

A hands-on review by Jason Elrod


Manning Imperial Type XXa Longsword

Added to Bill's Collection


Albion Armorers Viceroy/Regent Hybrid

Added to Bill's Collection


As always, you can see our Complete History of Updates listed right from our home page.
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Michal Plezia
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PostPosted: Mon 22 Jan, 2007 1:54 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Wonderfull stuff.I love type XX !!
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The sword is a weapon for killing, the art of the sword is the art of killing. No matter what fancy words you use or what titles you put to
it that is the only truth.
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Gordon Clark




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PostPosted: Mon 22 Jan, 2007 5:10 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Fantastic! Jason, Bill - if either of you ever sell those swords, drop me a note first! Happy

Those have to be two of the best looking reproduction versions I have ever seen. (Well, right up there with my custon Arms & Armor version.)

Craig - VERY nice article. I'll be re-reading that one more than once.

Gordon
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Steve Maly




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PostPosted: Mon 22 Jan, 2007 5:15 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Great article Craig! Lots of good information that I'll spend some time digesting.

The XXa's look great and the Viceroy with the Regent pommel looks damn sexy!

"When the only tool you own is a hammer, every problem begins to resemble a nail." ~A. Maslow
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Glen A Cleeton




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PostPosted: Mon 22 Jan, 2007 7:11 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The sword reviewed has a most iconic presence for many that are familiar with the works of Ewart Oakeshott. I'm quite taken with this effort of Manning Imperial and thank Jason and Bill for the review and first hand impressions.

It is hard to find anything not to like about Craig's article. I really like the inclusion of sources and suggested reading. This seems to culminate several conversations that have been shared on boards over the past few years. It was a pleasure to read what could have been presented as a much drier technical dissertation. Many thumbs up from this corner.

Cheers

GC
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Lafayette C Curtis




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PostPosted: Mon 22 Jan, 2007 7:50 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'm not very keen on buying Type XXs myself, but I must admit they're aesthetically very pleasing to look at--and this new review is certainly a good thing because it lets me do a bit more window-shopping on one of the prettiest Oakeshott types I know!
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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Mon 22 Jan, 2007 8:00 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I really enjoyed Craig's article. As a team member, I get a sneak preview of everything. When I read the first draft, I got really excited. For me, it was a huge eye-opener. I couldn't wait for others to be able to check it out. Nice job, Craig!
Happy

ChadA

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Greg Griggs




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PostPosted: Mon 22 Jan, 2007 8:48 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The Type XXa is definately much later than my prefered blades, but I'll have to say that is one beautiful sword. Manning Imperial did a wonderful job of creating a fine example. As for Craig's article, what can I say but WOW and COOL! Yep, that's a keeper for sure. Thanks guys for another great update!
Not one shred of evidence supports the notion that life is serious.
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Allen Andrews




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PostPosted: Mon 22 Jan, 2007 8:52 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I enjoyed all the content, but I found the article on blade hardness to be especially fascinating. Well done.
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Bill Grandy
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PostPosted: Mon 22 Jan, 2007 9:08 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Gordon Clark wrote:
Fantastic! Jason, Bill - if either of you ever sell those swords, drop me a note first! Happy


Jason already did: the sword is mine now! Happy

Still, we should get together sometime again. You've got some really nice pieces these days yourself!

Virginia Academy of Fencing Historical Swordsmanship
--German Longsword & Italian Rapier in the DC Area--


"A despondent heart will always be defeated regardless of skill."
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Bill Grandy
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PostPosted: Mon 22 Jan, 2007 9:10 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Chad Arnow wrote:
I really enjoyed Craig's article. As a team member, I get a sneak preview of everything. When I read the first draft, I got really excited. For me, it was a huge eye-opener. I couldn't wait for others to be able to check it out. Nice job, Craig!


This was exactly how I felt. Honestly, it was sometimes hard for me to keep my mouth shut when the occassionally there was a discussion that popped up about sword hardness (here and elsewhere). This is, to me, one of the more important articles on the web in the historical arms and armour community.

Virginia Academy of Fencing Historical Swordsmanship
--German Longsword & Italian Rapier in the DC Area--


"A despondent heart will always be defeated regardless of skill."
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Richard Fay




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PostPosted: Mon 22 Jan, 2007 9:25 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hello all!

Great article, Craig. It was very enlightening. I realize that the samples were too few to reach a broad conclusion, but they do seem to indicate that the modern obsession with numbers may miss the mark a bit. Believe it our not, I was actually thinking of period sword hardness recently, especially as it compares to modern replicas. Thanks for the information.

By the way, what is your take on the swords that received no heat treatment? I was surprised by that statement. I would love to hear more details about those examples. Were they duds?

Thanks again.

Stay safe!

"I'm going to do what the warriors of old did! I'm going to recite poetry!"
Prince Andrew of Armar


Last edited by Richard Fay on Mon 22 Jan, 2007 10:17 am; edited 1 time in total
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Michael Edelson




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PostPosted: Mon 22 Jan, 2007 9:28 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I want to express my sincere gratitude to Craig Johnson for deciding to publish this article here at myArmoury and for all the hard work and research it took to write it. Thank you also to Nathan and the other contributing team members for making it possible. This is the most thought provoking and exciting article on medieval swords that I have ever read.

After having absorbed its contents, I would very much like for a modern maker to make a sword with that type of hardness range and see how that sword would perform. We assume that uniform hardness and steel composition yield a superior blade, but what if we're wrong?


Last edited by Michael Edelson on Mon 22 Jan, 2007 11:04 am; edited 1 time in total
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Patrick Kelly




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PostPosted: Mon 22 Jan, 2007 9:36 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Craig,

Congratulations on putting together an excellent article. It's an important and valuable addition to everyones knowledge base.
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Peter Johnsson
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PostPosted: Mon 22 Jan, 2007 10:07 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Craig,

The aritcle turned out great! Impressive work. You provide a seldom seen perspective and fundamental facts in the case. Thanks for your effort.
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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Mon 22 Jan, 2007 4:04 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Michael Edelson wrote:
After having absorbed its contents, I would very much like for a modern maker to make a sword with that type of hardness range and see how that sword would perform. We assume that uniform hardness and steel composition yield a superior blade, but what if we're wrong?


I agree it would be interesting but might just prove the opposite ? Weight distribution, balance and handling in general was probably the most important thing as all these affect getting that blade were you want when you want in any system of swordsmanship I assume ? As long as the blade can take an edge and is resilient it was probably considered a good working tool. The very best swords may have been more consistent in quality or maybe even the best smith would produce mostly good swords and the occasional superior sword that would be recognized as such after the fact rather than planned that way.

The variability in hardness could be due to some superior knowledge if it follows some sort of logic: Harder edges than centre of blades? Harder edges near the tip where the blade might be deliberately sharper than closer to the hilt ?

I can imagine all sorts of subtle hardness differences in the same blade that might be planned for, deliberate and superior than a uniformly heat treated blade. On the other hand if the hardness seems almost random it might be more a question of difficulties in producing a uniform carbon content and other variables being TOO variable.

Our modern materials and precise control over hardness might mean that at least for these variables modern quality reproductions might be superior to the period swords ! ( Heresy I know and maybe I should burn at the stake for saying it Razz ) On the other hand the superiority of period swords would be more a question of design secrets and what was perceived to work well or desired of a working sword ?

Not to start an argument about Japanese swords being better than European Medieval swords I wonder how consistent hardness figures would be in an average or high quality Japanese sword: Would we find as much " random ' variations in hardness in a typical sword ? ( Again not planned for differences like soft back and hard edge in a controlled consistent manner. )

Finally: Very good article Craig that brings up many questions.

The sword articles are also very interesting even if I am commenting a bit less about them.

Oh, is this the same Manning Imperial sword in both articles ? I assume so unless more than one was made.

The hybrid sword seems to combine the best attributes of two already great looking swords and maybe Albion would consider making these as more than a one-off or do other combination experiments ? Obviously Albion already has a lot on their plate and I can understand their reluctance to disrupt the flow of their regular production for what is almost custom work.

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Joe Fults




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PostPosted: Mon 22 Jan, 2007 6:20 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Good material.

Excellent sourcing.

Hope the sample size increases over time to something conclusions can be drawn from.

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Grayson C.




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PostPosted: Mon 22 Jan, 2007 7:27 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

That viceroy/regent hybri strikes my fancy.

Howmuch did this experiment cost? Would they consider doing it with other designs as well? Seems like an amazing combination, if you ask me.


As always, another excellent from me Nathan! Keep of the great work!
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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Mon 22 Jan, 2007 7:30 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Grayson C. wrote:
That viceroy/regent hybri strikes my fancy.

Howmuch did this experiment cost? Would they consider doing it with other designs as well? Seems like an amazing combination, if you ask me.

As always, another excellent from me Nathan! Keep of the great work!


As far as I know, the hybrid was purchased secondhand from a former Albion employee. It was not made for a customer. I doubt Albion would be into offering swappable parts, as swapping parts might affect the balance, etc. You could always ask, but I doubt they'll do that as a rule.

Happy

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Bill Grandy
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PostPosted: Mon 22 Jan, 2007 8:04 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Chad Arnow wrote:
As far as I know, the hybrid was purchased secondhand from a former Albion employee. It was not made for a customer. I doubt Albion would be into offering swappable parts, as swapping parts might affect the balance, etc. You could always ask, but I doubt they'll do that as a rule.


Chad is right. It was actually one person's experiment that was with Albion's parts. I didn't buy it from Albion, but from John Gage (who also did the grip work and scabbard with Kevin Iseli's help), and this was after they'd formed their own custom shop and were no longer working for Albion. According to Howie, Albion doesn't have any plans to make any like it.

Virginia Academy of Fencing Historical Swordsmanship
--German Longsword & Italian Rapier in the DC Area--


"A despondent heart will always be defeated regardless of skill."
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