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Eric McHugh
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PostPosted: Thu 09 Nov, 2006 7:10 am    Post subject: 14th Century English Short Sword (Single Edged)         Reply with quote

14th Century English Short Sword (Single Edged)



This is inspired from an unusual but interesting 14th century, single edged, short sword from the Royal Armoury in Leeds.



I made this piece in pattern-weld to add to the piece. The pattern-weld is flawless and is 180 layers of L6 and 1095. This blade is really tough.

I am nearly done with the scabbard. I still have to forge the chape. It will be a nicely decorated leather covered wood core with a 14th century chape.







Here are some of the stats:

Steel: L6 and 1095, 180 layers
Weight: 2 pounds (0.907 kilos)
Blade: 23.23 (59.0 cm)
Overall: 28.8 (73.2 cm)
Grip Color: Dark Brown

This piece is sold. If you are interested in a similar piece, contact me at ericmycue@verizon.net to set up a custom order.



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Find me on Facebook, or check out my blog. Contact me at eric@crownforge.net or ericmycue374@comcast.net if you want to talk about a commission or discuss an available piece.


Last edited by Eric McHugh on Fri 10 Nov, 2006 9:01 am; edited 2 times in total
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Steve Fabert





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PostPosted: Thu 09 Nov, 2006 9:01 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Beautiful piece of work.

What is the blade cross section? The pattern welding makes it very difficult to judge the contours of the surface.
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Richard Fay




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PostPosted: Thu 09 Nov, 2006 9:06 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hello all!

Eric,
That piece is simply gorgeous! And different from the norm, which makes it even more special!
Great work! Too bad I'm a "starving artist" that couldn't possibly afford such a work of art. Oh well, I can always drool over the photos...

That's an interesting original you based it on. I've never seen it before. Is it in any print resources? One thing's for sure, it proves that medieval sword smiths often produced weapons that are "off the beaten path" as it were. Do you suppose it is some sort of early "riding sword"? Or could it be a very precocious hunting sword? Or an aberrant falchion? (Don't mind me, just pondering the unusual qualities of this sword.)

Neat sword! Great job!

Stay safe!

"I'm going to do what the warriors of old did! I'm going to recite poetry!"
Prince Andrew of Armar
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Eric McHugh
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PostPosted: Thu 09 Nov, 2006 9:57 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Steve Fabert wrote:
Beautiful piece of work.

What is the blade cross section? The pattern welding makes it very difficult to judge the contours of the surface.


It is has a wedged shaped cross-section.

Find me on Facebook, or check out my blog. Contact me at eric@crownforge.net or ericmycue374@comcast.net if you want to talk about a commission or discuss an available piece.
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Greyson Brown




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PostPosted: Thu 09 Nov, 2006 10:02 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Eric,

You are absolutely, positively an evil man. Razz That is a beautiful sword and there is absolutely no way I am going to be able to afford it. I'm very jealous of whoever gets their hands on it.

I found a very cute 14th Century short sword while I was in Germany. It was about the same size, but was of normal Type XV design. I'm not sure what it is, but I really like the looks of these smaller swords.

-Grey

"So long as I can keep the path of honor I am well content."
-Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, The White Company
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Eric McHugh
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PostPosted: Thu 09 Nov, 2006 10:21 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Richard Fay wrote:
That's an interesting original you based it on. I've never seen it before. Is it in any print resources? One thing's for sure, it proves that medieval sword smiths often produced weapons that are "off the beaten path" as it were. Do you suppose it is some sort of early "riding sword"? Or could it be a very precocious hunting sword? Or an aberrant falchion? (Don't mind me, just pondering the unusual qualities of this sword.)


It appears in a few publications. I think one of them is European Swords and Daggers in the Tower of London which is out of print. It is an odd ball sword for the 14th century. I'm not sure what documentation the Royal Armoury has that supports the 14th century date. Just my opinion: I think it is a 15th century weapon...no support just a feeling. It could be a riding sword, or an early "English-style" messer....again not sure. You do see these swords that have a "double-edged" profile but are single-edged weapons.

Anyway, it is definately a different sort of sword. This was just and "inspired by" piece and not an exact reproduction. :-)

Find me on Facebook, or check out my blog. Contact me at eric@crownforge.net or ericmycue374@comcast.net if you want to talk about a commission or discuss an available piece.
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Patrick Kelly




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PostPosted: Thu 09 Nov, 2006 12:33 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Oh my............................. Big Grin
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Richard Fay




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PostPosted: Thu 09 Nov, 2006 12:53 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hello all!
Eric McHugh wrote:

I think it is a 15th century weapon...no support just a feeling.


Eric,
You may be right about the date. Something looked familiar about the cross, and then I remembered that the decorative engraving in the centre of the cross looks roughly similar to that on the cross of the large-bladed type XVIII that Oakeshott showed as type XVIII. 10 in Records of the Medieval Sword. The cross on the sword in Records is a bit more elegant, with knobbed and notched ends, but it shows the same three groups of "lines" in roughly the same pattern. Oakeshott dated that sword as circa 1400-1450. (I'm also very familiar with MRL's replica of that sword, called the "Patay"; it's on the wall to my right as I type this. It's not nearly as nice as the original, of course, but it was one of their better jobs, appearance-wise anyway.)

I've also read that "cusped" ecussons are more typical of the fifteenth century, but there are plenty of earlier examples that proves this wrong. However, Oakeshott did describe a similar decorative style that this sword displays in The Sword in the Age of Chivalry. He stated that crosses with lines "girdling" the ends of the cross became popular around circa 1225 and again in the 15th century. He said that, on 15th century examples, the lines often formed chevrons and often accompanied a group of radiating lines similarly engraved on the ecusson. This design element (the groups of lines on the ecusson) was mostly found by itself on those crosses with cusped ecussons. Agin, this could point toward a 15th century date for the original.

If it is 15th century, then it can certainly be classed as a "riding sword". Of course, shorter swords were sometimes preferred by warriors throughout the medieval period. (For example: Oakeshott's X. 12, with a 26" blade, and X. 14, with a 23" blade, both from Records.)

Yeah, European Swords and Daggers in the Tower of London is out of print, but occasionally available used. It's one I don't have, and unfortunately can't justify the cost to purchase it when it does come up for sale! Some of these more in-depth sources are priced almost as much as a decent sword!

Thanks for the information! I hope I didn't just babble on about it!

Stay safe!

"I'm going to do what the warriors of old did! I'm going to recite poetry!"
Prince Andrew of Armar
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Jonathon Janusz





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PostPosted: Thu 09 Nov, 2006 3:36 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Eric, if I still didn't have to pick out NG number six. . .

Not only very nice as usual, but I am very happy to see that it is a little sword. Classic war swords get a lot of press (justifiably; they are popular and by way of that profitable to make), but I have consistently been drawn to the smaller "carry about town" kind of weapons. Interesting example to take as inspiration. Cool
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Geoff Wood




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PostPosted: Fri 10 Nov, 2006 8:31 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Eric
Just to be a pest, where is the point of balance, and do you have any pictures looking along the back of the blade?
Regards
Geoff Wood
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Eric McHugh
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PostPosted: Fri 10 Nov, 2006 8:59 am    Post subject: SOLD         Reply with quote

Hi all, this item is no longer available.

I will get more pictures when I'm finished with the scabbard next week.

Find me on Facebook, or check out my blog. Contact me at eric@crownforge.net or ericmycue374@comcast.net if you want to talk about a commission or discuss an available piece.
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Jeremy V. Krause




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PostPosted: Fri 10 Nov, 2006 10:49 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I have an issue with this sword. Yes it is really great looking and finely constructed to be sure, but why make it pattern welded when this is not historical? I think it would be all the better if it was comprised of monosteel.

I guess this is just something to think about.
Jeremy
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Eric McHugh
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PostPosted: Fri 10 Nov, 2006 12:22 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jeremy V. Krause wrote:
I have an issue with this sword. Yes it is really great looking and finely constructed to be sure, but why make it pattern welded when this is not historical? I think it would be all the better if it was comprised of monosteel.

I guess this is just something to think about.
Jeremy


Hi Jeremy,

Perhaps I did not explain the scope of this project very well. While it is true that I mostly try to do historic recreation, I also like to indulge my more artistic side. That is the case in this project. This was not a "recreation" of that sword. It is rather an "inspired by" project. I set out to make a nice piece of pattern-weld because I think pattern weld is cool. Rather than making some total "fantasy" sword, I chose to use a historic piece as inspiration knowing full well that the blade would not be historical.

This is not unheard of in the custom sword industry. Many makers who do "historic" weapons often make pieces that are pattern-weld but inspired by actual historic pieces. After all, if you have to chose fittings, why not chose historic fittings if you want.

I'm sorry that you have an issue with this sword. I was merely trying to express myself artistically while using historic examples for my inspirations.

Find me on Facebook, or check out my blog. Contact me at eric@crownforge.net or ericmycue374@comcast.net if you want to talk about a commission or discuss an available piece.


Last edited by Eric McHugh on Fri 10 Nov, 2006 12:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Dan Hill





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PostPosted: Fri 10 Nov, 2006 12:25 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Eric, do you recall any info on the buckler that is with the sword in Leeds?
Dan Hill
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Allen Andrews




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PostPosted: Fri 10 Nov, 2006 1:31 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Very nice!
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Jean Thibodeau




PostPosted: Fri 10 Nov, 2006 2:00 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Eric McHugh wrote:
Jeremy V. Krause wrote:
I have an issue with this sword. Yes it is really great looking and finely constructed to be sure, but why make it pattern welded when this is not historical? I think it would be all the better if it was comprised of monosteel.

I guess this is just something to think about.
Jeremy


Hi Jeremy,

Perhaps I did not explain the scope of this project very well. While it is true that I mostly try to do historic recreation, I also like to indulge my more artistic side. That is the case in this project. This was not a "recreation" of that sword. It is rather an "inspired by" project. I set out to make a nice piece of pattern-weld because I think pattern weld is cool. Rather than making some total "fantasy" sword, I chose to use a historic piece as inspiration knowing full well that the blade would not be historical.

This is not unheard of in the custom sword industry. Many makers who do "historic" weapons often make pieces that are pattern-weld but inspired by actual historic pieces. After all, if you have to chose fittings, why not chose historic fittings if you want.

I'm sorry that you have an issue with this sword. I was merely trying to express myself artistically while using historic examples for my inspirations.


Different goals mean different criteria about what is " ideal ": If one is focused on making a living history piece as strictly historical as we can make it. ( Our knowledge of history being the limiting factor: We have to do a best guess with limited information at times. )

Now if you were commissionning a sword to fit your goals a pattern welded blade would be something you woundn't want for this time period.

Anyway, no reason why you shouldn't personally prefer a different blade treatment: It's just that sometimes we can forget that different choices were made due to objectives or creative goals not identical to our preferences.

If I wasn't fully commited to paying for a number of projects I would have been very tempted by this one. Wink Cool

Very nice sword. Big Grin

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Jeremy V. Krause




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PostPosted: Fri 10 Nov, 2006 3:54 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Yes Eric, I see your point,

My own preferences aside this seems to be a fantastic weapon! I have come to admire your axes though I would prefer that they not be browned for the same reasons that If I were to commission a similar sword as the subject of this thread I would go for monosteel.

Thanks for indulging my little grip,

Jeremy[/i]
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Eric McHugh
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PostPosted: Sat 11 Nov, 2006 7:36 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jeremy V. Krause wrote:
Yes Eric, I see your point,

My own preferences aside this seems to be a fantastic weapon! I have come to admire your axes though I would prefer that they not be browned for the same reasons that If I were to commission a similar sword as the subject of this thread I would go for monosteel.

Thanks for indulging my little grip,

Jeremy


No problem. Hope I did not sound defensive.

Regarding those axes. I have come to understand why many smith do not make axes the traditional way. They are difficult and time consuming, and the market does not seem to bear the price that a smith needs to get to make it worth the effort. Realistically the price to forge-weld, heat treat, polish, and haft a bearded axe is close to $800-1000. When you take a large Danish style axe with forge-welded edge steel, the price could go up another $200. I'ved based this number on conversations with other smiths and trying to average their shop rate by the number of hours required. It is just an estimate, but you can get my point :-) Anyway, I wanted to create some affordable axes that were historically constructed. The only way I could think to save time was to have less polishing (since this takes a considerable amount of time). So, to make them look uniform, I browned them. I can definately make axes that are not browned, but then they would need to be polished and that would then increase the price. It is a difficult situation. I'd like to make more axes, but I'm not sure that the market will bear the price. Anyway, don't mind my ramblings.

Find me on Facebook, or check out my blog. Contact me at eric@crownforge.net or ericmycue374@comcast.net if you want to talk about a commission or discuss an available piece.
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PostPosted: Sat 11 Nov, 2006 3:16 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Eric-

Great job! I just recently got the Tower book you mentioned and was intrigued by this sword. I had no idea it was single edged! Very, very cool! Thanks for posting the picture of the original as well, it's alwasy nice to see the artist's process as well as results.
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Steve Grisetti




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PostPosted: Sun 12 Nov, 2006 5:59 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

That looks like a beautiful sword, Eric. While the pattern welding may not be historically correct for that particular period, the work looks gorgeous and flawless from the photos. I look forward to seeing the sword with scabbard when you have it completed.
"...dismount thy tuck, be yare in thy preparation, for thy assailant is quick, skilful, and deadly."
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