Info Favorites Register Log in
myArmoury.com Discussion Forums

Forum index Memberlist Usergroups Spotlight Topics Search
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Sword of Vlad Tepes (Dracula) Reply to topic
This is a standard topic Go to page 1, 2  Next 
Author Message
Thomas Laible




Location: Wuppertal, Germany
Joined: 30 Jan 2005

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 71

PostPosted: Sat 23 Sep, 2006 8:16 am    Post subject: Sword of Vlad Tepes (Dracula)         Reply with quote

Some years ago I've seen a tv dosumentation about Vlad Dracula.
In this documentation ist was stated, that his sword and armor are exhibited in the army museum of Bucarest.

If my memory is right , the sword has been a rather corroded large bastard sword with a broad blade. (I'm not sure if I did see side rings at the guard).

Has anybody informations about this sword? Do we have any romanian member?

Thomas

student at www.alte-kampfkunst.de
View user's profile Send private message
Barrett Hiebert





Joined: 22 Sep 2006

Posts: 71

PostPosted: Sat 23 Sep, 2006 12:01 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Greetings,

I have recently joined this forum from word of mouth from SFI, and I must say I am Romanian but was adopted from their and came to Canada, and it has created my a hankering for learning about my countries historu of arms and armour. I would also like to know the truth of your statement, and I shall ask around in the Romanian SCA forum. Thanks for bringing it up, and have a good day! Cheers!

Barrett Michael Hiebert
View user's profile Send private message
Thomas Laible




Location: Wuppertal, Germany
Joined: 30 Jan 2005

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 71

PostPosted: Mon 25 Sep, 2006 10:10 am    Post subject: Welcome         Reply with quote

Hello Barrett,

welcome to the forum.

I'm looking forward to the answer of your roamnian friends.

Best regards,
Thomas

student at www.alte-kampfkunst.de
View user's profile Send private message
Barrett Hiebert





Joined: 22 Sep 2006

Posts: 71

PostPosted: Mon 25 Sep, 2006 3:09 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Greetings,

Thankyou, it is good to meet you too. As soon as they reply to my last post, I shall pop the question to him. My personal opinion due to the history of Vlad Dracula, that he was living in exile in Transilvannia in the 1430's was that his armour and weapons were mainly European-influenced as that Transilvannia was a part of the Hungarian Empire, who mainly used German armour, or Italian. At least that is my belief from already-digressed information from my romanian friends. But I shall definately get to the bottom of this! Have a good day! Cheers!

Barrett Michael Hiebert
View user's profile Send private message
Ruel A. Macaraeg





Joined: 25 Aug 2003

Posts: 306

PostPosted: Mon 25 Sep, 2006 8:22 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

In the well-known and otherwise very readable biography Dracula -- Prince of Many Faces, his sword is said to have been his father's (Vlad Dracul's), and made in Toledo. Unfortunately no source is cited for this attribution.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Bill Tsafa




Location: Brooklyn, NY
Joined: 20 May 2004

Posts: 599

PostPosted: Wed 27 Sep, 2006 2:40 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I too have heard the story that Vlad the Impaler carried his father's Toledo sword till his death. I have looked into gaining further information about the sword and have not been able to find any. Ther is only one surving picture of Vlad and it is a portrait. Sorry not sword in the portrait.
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address
Barrett Hiebert





Joined: 22 Sep 2006

Posts: 71

PostPosted: Wed 27 Sep, 2006 7:37 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Greetings,

Well at the bottom of this page, you can see the answer to the question that you seek:

http://forum.drachenwald.sca.org/viewtopic.php?p=1779#1779

I was quite surprised to find out this information too, as of my previous speculation. It would be very nice to see an authentic hand-forged sword from Toledo, Spain historically, and modern! Big Grin

P.S. Vassilis Tsafatinos, are you by chance a citizen of Romania? If you are able I would love to ask you questions of Romania culture if you are, since I was born in Bucuresti of October 09, 1989!

Thankyou all, and have a good night! Cheers!

Barrett Michael Hiebert
View user's profile Send private message
Thomas Laible




Location: Wuppertal, Germany
Joined: 30 Jan 2005

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 71

PostPosted: Thu 28 Sep, 2006 4:39 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Barrett Hiebert wrote:
Well at the bottom of this page, you can see the answer to the question that you seek:

http://forum.drachenwald.sca.org/viewtopic.php?p=1779#1779


Barett,

according to my knowledge this painting was done after the famous portrait form Ambras Catle which was done in the 16th century - long after his death. So this painting is no evidence that Vlad really used a kilij as weapon - this maybe only the idea of the artist.

Also the question about the sword in the army museum of Bucarest is still unanswered.

Another possibility: Vlad could have used a kilij as representative dress sword and another one for battle - this was very common.

Thomas

student at www.alte-kampfkunst.de
View user's profile Send private message
Mikko Kuusirati




Location: Finland
Joined: 16 Nov 2004
Reading list: 13 books

Posts: 960

PostPosted: Thu 28 Sep, 2006 6:02 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

He could also have worn a kilij as a trophy, spoils of war from the Ottoman invaders...?
The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing;
Rush in and die, dogs -- I was a man before I was a king.
-- R. E. Howard, The Road of Kings
View user's profile Send private message
Blaz Berlec




Location: Podgorje, Kamnik, Slovenia, Europe
Joined: 26 Aug 2003
Reading list: 1 book

Spotlight topics: 4
Posts: 386

PostPosted: Thu 28 Sep, 2006 6:39 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

There's a little known portrait of Vlad Tepes in Slovenia, National Gallery from 1463. Vlad is here depicted as Pilatus judging the Christ. It was painted right after Hungarian king Matthias Corvinus proclaimed him a traitor, in his life time. Artist has propably worked from the woodcut print, so the portrait is quite simmilar to that from castle Ambras.

Link to the article, unfortunately in German:

http://www.siebenbuerger.de/sbz/sbz/news/1138528477,65029,.html



Unfortunately, no sword is depicted. But the armours of soldiers are interesting.


Extant 15th Century German Gothic Armour
Extant 15th century Milanese armour
Arming doublet of the 15th century
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Barrett Hiebert





Joined: 22 Sep 2006

Posts: 71

PostPosted: Thu 28 Sep, 2006 3:13 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

\Greetings,

Thomas Laible:

Quote:
Barett,

according to my knowledge this painting was done after the famous portrait form Ambras Catle which was done in the 16th century - long after his death. So this painting is no evidence that Vlad really used a kilij as weapon - this maybe only the idea of the artist.

Also the question about the sword in the army museum of Bucarest is still unanswered.

Another possibility: Vlad could have used a kilij as representative dress sword and another one for battle - this was very common.

Thomas


I shall definately be asking my romanian friends again, and directing to this thread once again, and being much more specific in my questioning. Thanks for bringing it up!

Mikko Kuusirati:

Quote:
He could also have worn a kilij as a trophy, spoils of war from the Ottoman invaders...?


That could be a very good possiblity but if you read the thread that I had previously posted, showing the artist's depiction of Vlad Tepes, it is said that Vlad Tepes often stayed as a guest in the Saltun's palace ensuring that the (Ottomon Empire) Turks would not attack Wallachia.

Blaz Berlec:

[/quote]There's a little known portrait of Vlad Tepes in Slovenia, National Gallery from 1463. Vlad is here depicted as Pilatus judging the Christ. It was painted right after Hungarian king Matthias Corvinus proclaimed him a traitor, in his life time. Artist has propably worked from the woodcut print, so the portrait is quite simmilar to that from castle Ambras.

Link to the article, unfortunately in German:

http://www.siebenbuerger.de/sbz/sbz/news/1138528477,65029,.html

Unfortunately, no sword is depicted. But the armours of soldiers are interesting.
Quote:


I would very much like to know who the artist was, and his backgorund was, of who created this painting as I am looking to historical art to decipher what armour was worn in regional Wallachia at the time!

Thankyou to all, and I shall try to get back to each of you as quickly as possible. Thankyou very much, and have a good day! Cheers!

Barrett Michael Hiebert
View user's profile Send private message
W. Schütz
Industry Professional



Location: Sweden
Joined: 19 Dec 2005

Posts: 356

PostPosted: Thu 28 Sep, 2006 4:23 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Blaz Berlec wrote:
There's a little known portrait of Vlad Tepes in Slovenia, National Gallery from 1463. Vlad is here depicted as Pilatus judging the Christ. It was painted right after Hungarian king Matthias Corvinus proclaimed him a traitor, in his life time. Artist has propably worked from the woodcut print, so the portrait is quite simmilar to that from castle Ambras.


That has to be one of the best pictures ive seen. Very greatful for such a treat.
And the italian armour is also great, esp the skirt.
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Blaz Berlec




Location: Podgorje, Kamnik, Slovenia, Europe
Joined: 26 Aug 2003
Reading list: 1 book

Spotlight topics: 4
Posts: 386

PostPosted: Thu 28 Sep, 2006 9:40 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here's a much bigger version, a scan I made from a book. But the picture hangs in our National Museum, I saw it again just last sunday. It's nowhere noted that the Pilatus is actually modelled as Vlad.

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k26/Bwaze/K...abel-1.jpg


I don't have all the info about the picture now, I have to ask my girlfriend (she's an art historian student, and has done some research about this work).

The soldier on the right has a scale armour cuirass!? Big Grin
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Thomas Laible




Location: Wuppertal, Germany
Joined: 30 Jan 2005

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 71

PostPosted: Fri 29 Sep, 2006 4:23 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Barrett Hiebert wrote:
\I shall definately be asking my romanian friends again, and directing to this thread once again, and being much more specific in my questioning. Thanks for bringing it up!
[/quote]

Thanks a lot for your efforts, Barrett.
The painting your friends are referring to - see attached file - is the portrait from Castle Forchtenstein and was made after 1622 (Vlad was killed 1476 or 1477)
Contemporary images like the painting Blaz has find don't show him with any armor or weapons.
There is a kind of Vlad-Iconography: his famous hat with feathers and pearls, long, curly hair, crooked nose and mustache. So it seems the historial artists had known how he "had to be painted".

It may be that the Forchtenstein image was made from an earlier painting from 1466, but this portrait is showing him in dress robes, with a mace - the insignia of power, given to his father by emperor Sigismund - so it is most likely that there also would be a dress sword depicted.

Do you see any possibility to contact the army museum in Bucharest? I googled to find a website, but had no success.

@Blaz:
I'll try to translate the article if I can find somewhat time


Regards,
Thomas



 Attachment: 14.61 KB
VladTepes.jpg


student at www.alte-kampfkunst.de
View user's profile Send private message
Travis Canaday




Location: Overland Park, Kansas
Joined: 24 Oct 2005

Posts: 144

PostPosted: Fri 29 Sep, 2006 3:29 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I emailed a lady named Elizabeth Miller who has studied the myth and reality of Dracula/Vlad Tepes and asked her about this. She has treveled in that region, so I asked if she has seen any arms or armour attributed to Vlad. This is what she sent me:

I am traveling this week but next week I will have a look. I know for
sure that there is a museum in Sighisoara (Vlad's birthplace) that
contains numerous armoury items. I need to look to see if I can find
photos & published information.

Elizabeth Miller
http://www.ucs.mun.ca/~emiller/ [Dracula's homepage]
http://www.blooferland.com/drc [Dracula Research Centre]

"Fii binevenit in casa mea! Intra de bunavoie, nesilit de nimeni!"


So who knows... She might be able to tell/show us something here soon. I thought that was pretty cool of her.

Travis
View user's profile Send private message
Merv Cannon




Location: Brisbane, Australia
Joined: 15 Jul 2005
Reading list: 13 books

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 301

PostPosted: Fri 29 Sep, 2006 9:37 pm    Post subject: Vlad Boy, Vlad Boy, Whatcha Gonna Do ?         Reply with quote

Hi Thomas and everybody...........In my poking around on the web for Vlad I found this ............ http://www.mwctoys.com/REVIEW_040704a.htm ........... and I just had to share it with you...actually, call me wierd, but I thing I want one !! Eek! ......... (Also they really do have some good links at the bottom of the page )
Merv ....... KOLR
http://www.lionrampant.com.au/

"Then let slip the dogs of war ! "......Woof !
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
Merv Cannon




Location: Brisbane, Australia
Joined: 15 Jul 2005
Reading list: 13 books

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 301

PostPosted: Fri 29 Sep, 2006 9:54 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

/quote]There's a little known portrait of Vlad Tepes in Slovenia, National Gallery from 1463. Vlad is here depicted as Pilatus judging the Christ. It was painted right after Hungarian king Matthias Corvinus proclaimed him a traitor, in his life time. Artist has propably worked from the woodcut print, so the portrait is quite simmilar to that from castle Ambras.

Link to the article, unfortunately in German:

http://www.siebenbuerger.de/sbz/sbz/news/1138528477,65029,.html

BTW..............All you do is click on the link and cut and paste the address back into the Google web-search box ( I have the Toolbar) and then hit "search " and then when it comes up click on "Translate this Page" and ....there you have it !!

Merv ....... KOLR
http://www.lionrampant.com.au/

"Then let slip the dogs of war ! "......Woof !
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
Barrett Hiebert





Joined: 22 Sep 2006

Posts: 71

PostPosted: Fri 29 Sep, 2006 11:22 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Greetings,

Thomas Liable:

Quote:
Barrett Hiebert wrote:
\I shall definately be asking my romanian friends again, and directing to this thread once again, and being much more specific in my questioning. Thanks for bringing it up!


Thanks a lot for your efforts, Barrett.
The painting your friends are referring to - see attached file - is the portrait from Castle Forchtenstein and was made after 1622 (Vlad was killed 1476 or 1477)
Contemporary images like the painting Blaz has find don't show him with any armor or weapons.
There is a kind of Vlad-Iconography: his famous hat with feathers and pearls, long, curly hair, crooked nose and mustache. So it seems the historial artists had known how he "had to be painted".

It may be that the Forchtenstein image was made from an earlier painting from 1466, but this portrait is showing him in dress robes, with a mace - the insignia of power, given to his father by emperor Sigismund - so it is most likely that there also would be a dress sword depicted.

Do you see any possibility to contact the army museum in Bucharest? I googled to find a website, but had no success.

@Blaz:
I'll try to translate the article if I can find somewhat time


Regards,
Thomas[/quote]

I will definately be asking them that question, and I am hoping to be eligible for my dual Canadian-Romanian citizenship, since I was born their, lol, and it'd be really awesome and so reliable and conveint if I could get it! Thanks for the information, very insightful. How do you know so much, and why are you so interested, if you don't mind me asking?

Travis Canady:

Thanks for the links, I'm definately sure she'll be able to supply us with some very generous information! Be sure to send her our heartfelt thanks! I'll be looking through it tomorrow hopefully, if all goes well!!

Merv Cannon:

Quote:
BTW..............All you do is click on the link and cut and paste the address back into the Google web-search box ( I have the Toolbar) and then hit "search " and then when it comes up click on "Translate this Page" and ....there you have it !!


Awesome procedure, my man!

Thanks all for your patience and support.. Goodnight to you all! Cheers!

Barrett Michael Hiebert
View user's profile Send private message
Thomas Laible




Location: Wuppertal, Germany
Joined: 30 Jan 2005

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 71

PostPosted: Sat 30 Sep, 2006 9:21 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Barrett Hiebert wrote:
How do you know so much, and why are you so interested, if you don't mind me asking?


Of course I don't mind.
Swords are not my only interest Cool
Some of my interests have turned to rather serious points - Highlander and swords led to my job (I'm writing for a german gun and knives magazine - and just have finished my book about swords Laughing Out Loud ) - other interests will stay only "unuseful fun subjects".

I was always interested in vampires and when I learned that there is a historical background for Dracula I was fascinated.
I studied history at the university so I'm experienced in research and somewhat familiar with analyzing historical paintings.

When I first watched this documentary about Vlad - the tape had gone lost during a move - myArmoury.com didn't exist. But now there is an opportunity to discuss such a sepcialized item like Vlad's sword with highly qualified spathologists. Big Grin

Thomas

student at www.alte-kampfkunst.de
View user's profile Send private message
Thomas Laible




Location: Wuppertal, Germany
Joined: 30 Jan 2005

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 71

PostPosted: Sat 30 Sep, 2006 9:22 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Travis Canaday wrote:
I emailed a lady named Elizabeth Miller who has studied the myth and reality of Dracula/Vlad Tepes and asked her about this. She has treveled in that region, so I asked if she has seen any arms or armour attributed to Vlad. This is what she sent me:

I am traveling this week but next week I will have a look. I know for
sure that there is a museum in Sighisoara (Vlad's birthplace) that
contains numerous armoury items. I need to look to see if I can find
photos & published information.

Elizabeth Miller
http://www.ucs.mun.ca/~emiller/ [Dracula's homepage]
http://www.blooferland.com/drc [Dracula Research Centre]

"Fii binevenit in casa mea! Intra de bunavoie, nesilit de nimeni!"


So who knows... She might be able to tell/show us something here soon. I thought that was pretty cool of her.


Pretty cool, indeed !!!!

student at www.alte-kampfkunst.de
View user's profile Send private message


Display posts from previous:   
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Sword of Vlad Tepes (Dracula)
Page 1 of 2 Reply to topic
Go to page 1, 2  Next All times are GMT - 8 Hours

View previous topic :: View next topic
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum






All contents © Copyright 2003-2018 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Basic Low-bandwidth Version of the forum