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Patrick Kelly




Location: Wichita, Kansas
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PostPosted: Sat 18 Jun, 2005 3:59 pm    Post subject: The Devil made riveted mail........         Reply with quote

.........or at least he had a hand in it.

I decided to add a little length to the skirt of my hauberk, and after an afternoon's work I added exactly one row of rings.

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.......................... Mad

"In valor there is hope.".................. Tacitus
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Mark Shier
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Joined: 27 Mar 2005

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PostPosted: Sat 18 Jun, 2005 4:33 pm    Post subject: mail         Reply with quote

Tell me about it. I'm tailoring an Indian-made hauberk to be more accurate, and to have it fit properly. It takes forever.
mark
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Aaron Schnatterly




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PostPosted: Sat 18 Jun, 2005 4:41 pm    Post subject: Re: The Devil made riveted mail........         Reply with quote

Patrick Kelly wrote:
I decided to add a little length to the skirt of my hauberk, and after an afternoon's work I added exactly one row of rings.


And you are using pre-fabbed rings and rivets! I'm guessing that was about 130 - 150 rings.

Look at the historical lesson here and we can all learn something about (or at least appreciate, marvel at?) the actual period pieces. The iron needed to be gathered and processed, wire drawn, spooled, cut, rings prepped and pierced, and then they got to where you were. Insane amount of effort and time.

-Aaron Schnatterly
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Fortior Qui Se Vincit
(He is stronger who conquers himself.)
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David R. Glier





Joined: 01 Mar 2004

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PostPosted: Sat 18 Jun, 2005 6:12 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

And now that you've thought about that, think about the effort it would take to draw sheat metal out of an ingot that's, say, three inches thick.

Would YOU like to be one of the strikers swinging the #20 sledges? Laughing Out Loud
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Patrick Kelly




Location: Wichita, Kansas
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PostPosted: Sat 18 Jun, 2005 6:13 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Aaron wrote:
And you are using pre-fabbed rings and rivets! I'm guessing that was about 130 - 150 rings.


141 rings exactly. Eek!

It does give you any appreciation for the ancient craft as well as the modern craftsman who do high quality mail work.

"In valor there is hope.".................. Tacitus
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Jean Thibodeau




Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
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PostPosted: Sat 18 Jun, 2005 9:55 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Also why the stuff was probably too expensive for the masses and the stuff must have been recycled when possible.

Using it for pot scrubbing must have been with really tired stuff.

Scale or leather must have been a lot less time consuming to make and maybe used more often than we know of during the dark ages or early Medieval period.

Maille may have become less expensive when semi-industrial armour making became more efficient.

Patrick: Never tried myself but those tiny rivets must cramp out your hands just trying to put then though the holes in the rings and fall out a lot before you actually peen them !? Razz Big Grin

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!


Last edited by Jean Thibodeau on Sun 19 Jun, 2005 12:49 am; edited 1 time in total
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Aaron Schnatterly




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PostPosted: Sun 19 Jun, 2005 12:32 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Patrick Kelly wrote:

141 rings exactly. Eek!

It does give you any appreciation for the ancient craft as well as the modern craftsman who do high quality mail work.


I figured I was pretty close. (not my first rodeo, you see...)

Butted maille gave me a close-enough approximation to be thoroughly amazed by ancient riveted maille. It also makes a quoted price of in the neighborhood of $0.30 per link sound cheap... until you realize that there are like 75,000 rings in my personal maille. Let's see... math at 02:30 hrs ( WTF?! )... that's $22,500.

-Aaron Schnatterly
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(He is stronger who conquers himself.)
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Sam Barris




Location: San Diego, California
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PostPosted: Sun 19 Jun, 2005 7:57 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

You've got brass ones, Patrick. Or perhaps ones of riveted maille. Happy I'm going to have to go another few rounds with butted shirts (and become a civilian again) before I try a project like that, but I'm looking forward to watching how it unfolds. I drink to your success!
Pax,
Sam Barris

"Any nation that draws too great a distinction between its scholars and its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards, and its fighting done by fools." —Thucydides
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Patrick Fitzmartin





Joined: 07 Nov 2003

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PostPosted: Sun 19 Jun, 2005 7:12 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Greetings Patrick Kelly, I am doing my first butted maille shirt. Please accept my kudos and sympathies for doing the "riveted" version. I would also like to add my most sincere compliments for your library presentation(?) here too. Here is my salute to all that will have it their own way! For size, historic accuracy, etc. A salute to the effort, aggravation and appreciation of taking craft to hand and doing the work of our anscestors as masochistic as it sounds. A fine meal is only known after it is ate. Here's to those who eat and eat well. Personally, I have developed a rather strong taste for steel,leather and wood.:o Like a fine wine or good Scotch, I find their finish quite satisfying.Wink Sincerely, Patrick Fitzmartin
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Patrick Kelly




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PostPosted: Sun 19 Jun, 2005 9:57 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Patrick Fitzmartin wrote:
Greetings Patrick Kelly, I am doing my first butted maille shirt. Please accept my kudos and sympathies for doing the "riveted" version. I would also like to add my most sincere compliments for your library presentation(?) here too. Here is my salute to all that will have it their own way! For size, historic accuracy, etc. A salute to the effort, aggravation and appreciation of taking craft to hand and doing the work of our anscestors as masochistic as it sounds. A fine meal is only known after it is ate. Here's to those who eat and eat well. Personally, I have developed a rather strong taste for steel,leather and wood.:o Like a fine wine or good Scotch, I find their finish quite satisfying.Wink Sincerely, Patrick Fitzmartin


Thank you Patrick.

I was very pleased with how the program went. I'm also pleased with how my norman kit is progressing. It still isn't complete but I think it will be quite nice when I'm finished.

I've worked with butted mail and thought it was an excercise in frustration until I started fooling around with this riveted stuff! I'll admit that it is neat to look at a few rings you've riveted into place. It makes you feel that you're a bit more in touch with the real process. Even so, I'm just doing alterations. I'd never attempt an entire garment of the stuff!

"In valor there is hope.".................. Tacitus
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