Info Favorites Register Log in
myArmoury.com Discussion Forums

Forum index Memberlist Usergroups Spotlight Topics Search
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Two Deccan/South Indian katars Reply to topic
This is a standard topic  
Author Message
Jens Nordlunde





Joined: 06 Jan 2004

Posts: 29

PostPosted: Tue 29 May, 2018 7:34 am    Post subject: Two Deccan/South Indian katars         Reply with quote

The shown katars are are not only different in size, but also in age.
The katar to the left is 35.5 cm long, and of this the armour piercing tip is 15 cm. 17th century, Hindu.
The katar to the right is 29 cm, blade 17 cm, with a wootz blade. 18th century. The decoration is newer likely 19th century from Rajasthan.
Very often the decoration was removed, either for scrap value or for other reasons, and a new decoration applied according to fashion.



 Attachment: 409.51 KB
[ Download ]
View user's profile Send private message
Greg Ballantyne




Location: Maryland USA
Joined: 14 Feb 2011
Likes: 1 page

Posts: 233

PostPosted: Sun 17 Jun, 2018 7:37 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I saw many of these with some variation in the museum in New Delhi almost 20 years ago. I've often wonder how they were used - simply grasped in the hand, or were the swept ends bound to the wrist/forearm to keep the blade extended? Or was grasp bar rotation within the hand a desired attribute?

The same might apply to several other small hand arms displayed in the Delhi museum, but the extended blade on these katars really prompts the question. Anyone know?
View user's profile Send private message
Ben Joy




Location: Missouri
Joined: 21 May 2010
Likes: 1 page

Posts: 107

PostPosted: Sun 17 Jun, 2018 9:03 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Greg Ballantyne wrote:
I saw many of these with some variation in the museum in New Delhi almost 20 years ago. I've often wonder how they were used - simply grasped in the hand, or were the swept ends bound to the wrist/forearm to keep the blade extended? Or was grasp bar rotation within the hand a desired attribute?

The same might apply to several other small hand arms displayed in the Delhi museum, but the extended blade on these katars really prompts the question. Anyone know?


The Katars I owned for a while had two smaller bars that kept the weapon from really rotating in the hand. The bars on these appear as if they could be thick enough to mimic that same effect, still being around 1/2" thick at the narrowest point. Mine were two much narrower bars, but very close together . . . maybe 3/4" total girth.

The guards on mine had a notch in them, towards the back, specifically for tying to the forearm, but from what I've seen that actually seems to be an optional/undesirable thing. Demonstration videos I've seen of Katar fighting through Kalari styles don't have the weapons secured to the forearms. In fact, it seems you still want to be able to move your wrist to execute various maneuvers.

Katars have always fascinated me. It makes me wish I still had mine. Anyway, here's a modern demonstration of some Kalari dagger instruction/sparring using Katars:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nh_SQwpoyAk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3bE5SkBeD0
You'll notice that they don't have the guards strapped to the forearm and they move their wrists quite a bit.

Sadly, I'm no expert, but hopefully you find the information helpful.

"Men take only their needs into consideration, never their abilities." -Napoleon Bonaparte
View user's profile Send private message
Jens Nordlunde





Joined: 06 Jan 2004

Posts: 29

PostPosted: Wed 20 Jun, 2018 6:22 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Katars have changed little during many centuries, but there have been changes, see 'How Old is the Katar?'
Differen types were ysed in different places of India, and fashion especially changed the decoration. Often the thick gold decoration was removed, aand a new decoration was added in koftgari.
View user's profile Send private message
Jens Nordlunde





Joined: 06 Jan 2004

Posts: 29

PostPosted: Thu 21 Jun, 2018 1:27 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here are a few more south Indoian katars.


 Attachment: 398.49 KB
[ Download ]
View user's profile Send private message
Eric S




Location: new orleans
Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Reading list: 8 books

Posts: 801

PostPosted: Fri 22 Jun, 2018 9:52 am    Post subject: Re: Two Deccan/South Indian katars         Reply with quote

Jens Nordlunde wrote:
The shown katars are are not only different in size, but also in age.
The katar to the left is 35.5 cm long, and of this the armour piercing tip is 15 cm. 17th century, Hindu.
The katar to the right is 29 cm, blade 17 cm, with a wootz blade. 18th century. The decoration is newer likely 19th century from Rajasthan.
Very often the decoration was removed, either for scrap value or for other reasons, and a new decoration applied according to fashion.


Jens, these type of katar are called "garsoee"???

https://www.pinterest.com/worldantiques/
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Jens Nordlunde





Joined: 06 Jan 2004

Posts: 29

PostPosted: Sat 23 Jun, 2018 1:44 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

No they are not gasoe katars - they come from Sind, and look quite different - at least the side guards does.
View user's profile Send private message
Greg Ballantyne




Location: Maryland USA
Joined: 14 Feb 2011
Likes: 1 page

Posts: 233

PostPosted: Sun 24 Jun, 2018 5:36 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Interesting. There are other hand held small weapons of similar configuration in India - some use blades, others fire projectiles. But the bladed weapons are the more interesting, in my opinion....

Perhaps binding to the forearm would only be desirable in certain circumstances, or to prevent the loss of the weapon. The dual grip bar style would be less likely to rotate unintentionally.
View user's profile Send private message
Jens Nordlunde





Joined: 06 Jan 2004

Posts: 29

PostPosted: Fri 29 Jun, 2018 6:49 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

You will only find a strap to secure the weapon to the lower part of the arm, on katars with very long blades, like sword blades, or on Patas (gountlet swords).
View user's profile Send private message
Eric S




Location: new orleans
Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Reading list: 8 books

Posts: 801

PostPosted: Fri 06 Jul, 2018 5:15 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jens Nordlunde wrote:
No they are not gasoe katars - they come from Sind, and look quite different - at least the side guards does.
Ok, I was not exactly sure if it was the single grip or the single grip and the side bars that made a gasoe katar.


SIND KATAR.




GASOE KATAR.

https://www.pinterest.com/worldantiques/


Last edited by Eric S on Tue 10 Jul, 2018 1:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Eric S




Location: new orleans
Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Reading list: 8 books

Posts: 801

PostPosted: Fri 06 Jul, 2018 5:24 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here is another type of single grip katar, I have only seen two of this type.




https://www.pinterest.com/worldantiques/
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Jens Nordlunde





Joined: 06 Jan 2004

Posts: 29

PostPosted: Tue 10 Jul, 2018 1:45 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Eric, the one you showed in you second but last post is a Gersoe katar, due to the sideguards.
I woild not like to guess from where the other katar is:-).
Jens
View user's profile Send private message


Display posts from previous:   
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Two Deccan/South Indian katars
Page 1 of 1 Reply to topic
All times are GMT - 8 Hours

View previous topic :: View next topic
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum






All contents © Copyright 2003-2018 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Basic Low-bandwidth Version of the forum