| Author |
Message |
|
Jens Nordlunde
|
 Posted: Tue 29 May, 2018 7:34 am Post subject: Two Deccan/South Indian katars |
 |
|
The shown katars are are not only different in size, but also in age.
The katar to the left is 35.5 cm long, and of this the armour piercing tip is 15 cm. 17th century, Hindu.
The katar to the right is 29 cm, blade 17 cm, with a wootz blade. 18th century. The decoration is newer likely 19th century from Rajasthan.
Very often the decoration was removed, either for scrap value or for other reasons, and a new decoration applied according to fashion.
 Attachment: 409.51 KB
[ Download ]
|
|
  |
 |
|
Greg Ballantyne
|
| Posted: Sun 17 Jun, 2018 7:37 am Post subject: |
|
|
I saw many of these with some variation in the museum in New Delhi almost 20 years ago. I've often wonder how they were used - simply grasped in the hand, or were the swept ends bound to the wrist/forearm to keep the blade extended? Or was grasp bar rotation within the hand a desired attribute?
The same might apply to several other small hand arms displayed in the Delhi museum, but the extended blade on these katars really prompts the question. Anyone know?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ben Joy
|
| Posted: Sun 17 Jun, 2018 9:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Greg Ballantyne wrote: | I saw many of these with some variation in the museum in New Delhi almost 20 years ago. I've often wonder how they were used - simply grasped in the hand, or were the swept ends bound to the wrist/forearm to keep the blade extended? Or was grasp bar rotation within the hand a desired attribute?
The same might apply to several other small hand arms displayed in the Delhi museum, but the extended blade on these katars really prompts the question. Anyone know? |
The Katars I owned for a while had two smaller bars that kept the weapon from really rotating in the hand. The bars on these appear as if they could be thick enough to mimic that same effect, still being around 1/2" thick at the narrowest point. Mine were two much narrower bars, but very close together . . . maybe 3/4" total girth.
The guards on mine had a notch in them, towards the back, specifically for tying to the forearm, but from what I've seen that actually seems to be an optional/undesirable thing. Demonstration videos I've seen of Katar fighting through Kalari styles don't have the weapons secured to the forearms. In fact, it seems you still want to be able to move your wrist to execute various maneuvers.
Katars have always fascinated me. It makes me wish I still had mine. Anyway, here's a modern demonstration of some Kalari dagger instruction/sparring using Katars:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nh_SQwpoyAk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3bE5SkBeD0
You'll notice that they don't have the guards strapped to the forearm and they move their wrists quite a bit.
Sadly, I'm no expert, but hopefully you find the information helpful.
"Men take only their needs into consideration, never their abilities." -Napoleon Bonaparte
|
|
|
|
|
|
Jens Nordlunde
|
| Posted: Wed 20 Jun, 2018 6:22 am Post subject: |
|
|
Katars have changed little during many centuries, but there have been changes, see 'How Old is the Katar?'
Differen types were ysed in different places of India, and fashion especially changed the decoration. Often the thick gold decoration was removed, aand a new decoration was added in koftgari.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Jens Nordlunde
|
| Posted: Thu 21 Jun, 2018 1:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Here are a few more south Indoian katars.
Attachment: 398.49 KB
[ Download ]
|
|
|
|
|
Eric S
|
| Posted: Fri 22 Jun, 2018 9:52 am Post subject: Re: Two Deccan/South Indian katars |
|
|
| Jens Nordlunde wrote: | The shown katars are are not only different in size, but also in age.
The katar to the left is 35.5 cm long, and of this the armour piercing tip is 15 cm. 17th century, Hindu.
The katar to the right is 29 cm, blade 17 cm, with a wootz blade. 18th century. The decoration is newer likely 19th century from Rajasthan.
Very often the decoration was removed, either for scrap value or for other reasons, and a new decoration applied according to fashion. |
Jens, these type of katar are called "garsoee"???
https://www.pinterest.com/worldantiques/
|
|
 |
|
|
Jens Nordlunde
|
| Posted: Sat 23 Jun, 2018 1:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
No they are not gasoe katars - they come from Sind, and look quite different - at least the side guards does.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Greg Ballantyne
|
| Posted: Sun 24 Jun, 2018 5:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Interesting. There are other hand held small weapons of similar configuration in India - some use blades, others fire projectiles. But the bladed weapons are the more interesting, in my opinion....
Perhaps binding to the forearm would only be desirable in certain circumstances, or to prevent the loss of the weapon. The dual grip bar style would be less likely to rotate unintentionally.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Jens Nordlunde
|
| Posted: Fri 29 Jun, 2018 6:49 am Post subject: |
|
|
|
You will only find a strap to secure the weapon to the lower part of the arm, on katars with very long blades, like sword blades, or on Patas (gountlet swords).
|
|
|
|
|
Eric S
|
| Posted: Fri 06 Jul, 2018 5:15 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Jens Nordlunde wrote: | | No they are not gasoe katars - they come from Sind, and look quite different - at least the side guards does. |
Ok, I was not exactly sure if it was the single grip or the single grip and the side bars that made a gasoe katar.
SIND KATAR.
GASOE KATAR.
https://www.pinterest.com/worldantiques/
Last edited by Eric S on Tue 10 Jul, 2018 1:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
Eric S
|
|
|
|
|
|
Jens Nordlunde
|
| Posted: Tue 10 Jul, 2018 1:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Eric, the one you showed in you second but last post is a Gersoe katar, due to the sideguards.
I woild not like to guess from where the other katar is:-).
Jens
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
This is a standard topic
