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Robert Sorrick




Location: wv
Joined: 28 Jan 2018

Posts: 1

PostPosted: Sun 04 Feb, 2018 10:14 am    Post subject: sword identification         Reply with quote

Cleaning out my girlsfriends mom's house after she passed away and found an old sword. Looked online for information. best I could guess was a late 1700s calvary sword. just a guess. nothing engraved that we can see. please help with the identification of this sword.

I have attatched a few pictures.

also, would it be ok to use electrolysis to clean the sword?

any help would be appreciated.



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Scott Kowalski




Location: Oak Lawn, IL USA
Joined: 24 Nov 2006

Posts: 755

PostPosted: Sun 04 Feb, 2018 10:19 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hello Robert, I cannot help with identification as this is out of my era of interest. I would suggest waiting on doing any type of cleaning to the sword until it is identified as either an antique or a reproduction. If it is a reproduction it could be worth more to a collector in its present state then in any kind of reconditioned state. Sorry that I could not be of more assistance.
Chris Landwehr 10/10/49-1/1/09 My Mom
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Mark Moore




Location: East backwoods-assed Texas
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PostPosted: Sun 04 Feb, 2018 10:41 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Yep, don't do anything to it until you get some authenticity verification. The grip looks...strange. But, as Scott said...this is not my area of expertise. That's a nice find though! Big Grin .....McM
''Life is like a box of chocolates...'' --- F. Gump
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Lin Robinson




Location: NC
Joined: 15 Jun 2006
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PostPosted: Sun 04 Feb, 2018 12:09 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I will echo the remarks of others. Do not do anything to it at this point.

Are there any markings on the blade, guard, pommel or any other area of the sword?

Lin Robinson

"The best thing in life is to crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentation of their women." Conan the Barbarian, 1982
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Steve Fabert





Joined: 03 Mar 2004
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Posts: 493

PostPosted: Sun 04 Feb, 2018 1:45 pm    Post subject: 1796 pattern light cavalry sabre         Reply with quote

Looks like one of these items from the era of the Napoleonic wars. No idea based on the photo whether it might be authentic or an inexpensive replica but the style is rather distinctive.

https://www.outfit4events.com/czk/product/6645-1796-light-cavalry-saber-with-steel-scabbard/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pattern_1796_light_cavalry_sabre



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Sean Flynt
myArmoury Team


myArmoury Team

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PostPosted: Mon 05 Feb, 2018 6:42 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Could be a Federal period militia sword (imported).
-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Steve Fabert





Joined: 03 Mar 2004
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PostPosted: Mon 05 Feb, 2018 7:05 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The 1796 pattern cavalry saber was copied by a number of countries, including the US. So unless the sword has identifying markings it may be difficult if not impossible to determine a country of origin.
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Glen A Cleeton




Location: Nipmuc USA
Joined: 21 Aug 2003

Posts: 1,837

PostPosted: Mon 05 Feb, 2018 7:17 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Needs better straight on well lit pictures of the sword.

It is a fallacy to lump all p guard swords into the 1796 category.

Without better pictures showing the true condition is a bit like playing blind man's bluff. There are lots of methods but I would avoid electrolysis.

Let's start with good clear pictures and some dimensions (straight line butt to blade tip for a start)

I have a silver station wagon. Can you tell me when it last got an oil change? That's kind of how the original inquiry reads to me. The picture is kind of useless aside saying, yes you have a sword that could be from the late 18th century.

Cheers

GC
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Glen A Cleeton




Location: Nipmuc USA
Joined: 21 Aug 2003

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PostPosted: Mon 05 Feb, 2018 7:30 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

FWIW, I place it a little later than the Napoleonic era, German made/influences and probably meant for one of the various states. Not meant for the American market without some other provenance. Thousands of swords were brought back after both big wars.

The exaggerated P guard is fairly early in the grand scheme of things but the blade and guard fitment could mean an earlier pre 1816 sword. Need clear pictures of those facets. The grip shows some material loss and we need to see all of that. I'd bet more like the 1820s.

Cheers

GC
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Jordan E. Williams




Location: California
Joined: 25 Mar 2016

Posts: 104

PostPosted: Fri 09 Feb, 2018 7:48 am    Post subject: Re: sword identification         Reply with quote

Robert Sorrick wrote:
Cleaning out my girlsfriends mom's house after she passed away and found an old sword. Looked online for information. best I could guess was a late 1700s calvary sword. just a guess. nothing engraved that we can see. please help with the identification of this sword.

I have attatched a few pictures.

also, would it be ok to use electrolysis to clean the sword?

any help would be appreciated.


Don't use electrolysis. High chance of ruining the steel and making it brittle. If you want to clean it use a 3m 150 grit sanding sponge with lots of 3 in 1 oil, followed by very high grit automotive papers and more 3 in 1 in one oil. Won't be worth very much cleaned or uncleaned it looks like.

His Imperial and Royal Majesty Hordan Vilhelm the Great, by the Grace of God, German Emperor and King of Prussia, Margrave of Brandenburg, Burgrave of Nuremberg, Count of Hohenzollern, Duke of Silesia and of the County of Glatz, Grand Duke of the Lower Rhine!
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Geoffroy Gautier





Joined: 18 Nov 2009

Posts: 28

PostPosted: Sat 10 Feb, 2018 8:06 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The trumpet-shaped rear quillon and extending crossguard past the "vertical" branch of the stirrup hilt looks relatively specific and distinctive. I believe none of these feature is ever seen on English sabers, while the protruding quillon is relatively common on "germanic" sabers (Germany and Austria). But that trumpet quillon is an oddity to me. The whole thing is obviously designed as a light cavalry saber. As for the dating, I would tend to agree with Glenn Cleeton and say it's post-napoleonic, due to these hilt features. Usually it ends with a volute. The trumpet quillon is more of a French thing. It might not be a trumpet really, but it's nothing like this quillon use to look like, it seems.

The closest match I could find were these:

https://www.dorotheum.com/auktionen/aktuelle-auktionen/kataloge/list-lots-detail/auktion/12454-historische-waffen-uniformen-militaria/lotID/32/lot/2208477-sabel-fur-osterreichische-burgerwehren.html?currentPage=2


https://www.dorotheum.com/auktionen/aktuelle-auktionen/kataloge/list-lots-detail/auktion/12489-historische-waffen-uniformen-militaria/lotID/13/lot/2229381-osterreichischer-burgerwehrsabel.html


But none is an exact match, especially since they seem to have a cast brass hilt instead of a forged iron one. It's a mystery to me.
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