Info Favorites Register Log in
myArmoury.com Discussion Forums

Forum index Memberlist Usergroups Spotlight Topics Search
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > German Word For Falchion? Reply to topic
This is a standard topic  
Author Message
Mike Ruhala




Location: Stuart, Florida
Joined: 24 Jul 2011

Posts: 328

PostPosted: Tue 20 Sep, 2016 3:46 pm    Post subject: German Word For Falchion?         Reply with quote

14th century German artwork depicts weaponry many of us would call "falchion" but it occurs to me that is a "foreign" word, is anybody here familiar with any text that suggests what a 14th century German might have called it?
Historical fencing on Florida's Treasure Coast!
www.tcfencers.com
View user's profile Send private message
Thomas R.




Location: Germany
Joined: 10 May 2010
Likes: 4 pages
Reading list: 17 books

Posts: 395

PostPosted: Tue 20 Sep, 2016 4:19 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

That would be Malchus, I guess. In french it may have been Fauchon.
http://maerenundlobebaeren.tumblr.com/
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Victor R.




Location: Spring, Texas
Joined: 28 Jan 2008
Reading list: 4 books

Posts: 240

PostPosted: Wed 21 Sep, 2016 10:21 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I have seen it discussed on this site many times that much of the terminology we associate with different forms of swords and other objects is more of a modern attempt to classify, and that contemporaneous terminology was frequently much more basic. As such, back in the day, I would suggest they may have simply used the term "schwert", perhaps with some modifier that indicated single edged vs. double edged, but maybe not even that; or, perhaps, "messer" since a falchion is a fairly identical blade form, with the difference in our modern classification system being the hilt construction. I believe we tend to overthink and overclassify things in this era.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Bram Verbeek





Joined: 27 Mar 2007

Posts: 217

PostPosted: Wed 21 Sep, 2016 11:19 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It is called Malchus in "Das Schwert...", and considering that comes from the biblical figure, chances are that term is quite old. In southern Germany and Austria, the greeting "Servus Christi" alledgedly came from Roman times, during christian persecution. They have long memories in their traditions.
View user's profile Send private message
Gottfried P. Doerler




Location: Tyrol, Austria
Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Likes: 4 pages

Posts: 228

PostPosted: Wed 21 Sep, 2016 2:34 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

being austrian, i would also say "malchus".
that was the name of the servant of the high priest caiaphas, whom st. peter chopped off an ear during the arrest of jesus.
allegedly peter used a falchion-like short-sword for this purpose, so the name of the victim went over on this type of sword in german speaking areas.

but as far as i know, falchions were never so popular or common here, in contrast to english/french areas.
imho, the falchion was especially popular in france, where they had several names for it, like fauchon or baudelaire.
in my area, when the fauchon got popular in france in the high-to-late middle ages, other types of blades, that fulfilled the same role, were more catching on, like the messer, or the bohemian dussack.


Bram Verbeek wrote:
In southern Germany and Austria, the greeting "Servus Christi" alledgedly came from Roman times, during christian persecution. They have long memories in their traditions.


this might be right Happy

many people use e.g. the expression "die lunte riechen" i.e. "to smell the match" if they expect something to be a trap.
although few think about it, this expression obviously comes from times, when adversaries lay in ambushes with matchlock firearms.

another one, stemming from this time, must be "sein pulver verschossen haben" - "has shot all his powder"
used if someone supposedly won`t be able to bring up something more - be it an argument in a legal case, or a surprise in a romantic relationship - "i think he has spent all his powder."
View user's profile Send private message
Mike Ruhala




Location: Stuart, Florida
Joined: 24 Jul 2011

Posts: 328

PostPosted: Wed 21 Sep, 2016 6:25 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Victor R. wrote:
I have seen it discussed on this site many times that much of the terminology we associate with different forms of swords and other objects is more of a modern attempt to classify, and that contemporaneous terminology was frequently much more basic. As such, back in the day, I would suggest they may have simply used the term "schwert", perhaps with some modifier that indicated single edged vs. double edged, but maybe not even that; or, perhaps, "messer" since a falchion is a fairly identical blade form, with the difference in our modern classification system being the hilt construction. I believe we tend to overthink and overclassify things in this era.


Funny you should mention that, I've been wondering about the same thing. Here's a fairly typical falchion/malchus from 14th c. Germany,

http://manuscriptminiatures.com/4743/9765/

Here's something with a more messer-like blade from the very beginning of the 15th century.

http://manuscriptminiatures.com/5462/18353/

Here's something else that's rather messer-like but features a wheel pommel,

http://manuscriptminiatures.com/4983/15497/

Does anyone know of any 14th century references to "messer" that seem related to the famous 15th c. weapon?

Historical fencing on Florida's Treasure Coast!
www.tcfencers.com
View user's profile Send private message


Display posts from previous:   
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > German Word For Falchion?
Page 1 of 1 Reply to topic
All times are GMT - 8 Hours

View previous topic :: View next topic
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum






All contents © Copyright 2003-2018 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Basic Low-bandwidth Version of the forum