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Sam Steele





Joined: 19 Nov 2013

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PostPosted: Sun 15 Nov, 2015 1:30 pm    Post subject: mid 14th century maces         Reply with quote

hello all i am trying to look into english maces in the 14th century but cant really find any.
does anyone have any sources, pictures or locations of these? as i do medieval reenactments and want to improve my knowledge of weapon for shows
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Craig Peters




PostPosted: Mon 16 Nov, 2015 6:03 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

As far as I know there is no such thing as a English mace (as distinct from other maces) in the 14th century, so I would widen my search to include continental maces.

Here's a few from English manuscripts. The top two are in the early 14th century, while the bottom is mid-14th century. I'm not aware of any extant 14th century mace heads that resemble the one from the final image.

http://manuscriptminiatures.com/media/manuscr.../312-5.jpg

http://manuscriptminiatures.com/4154/12134/

http://manuscriptminiatures.com/4373/7074/

Here's the mace head found in the River Thames:
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J. Nicolaysen




Location: Wyoming
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PostPosted: Mon 16 Nov, 2015 7:01 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here's a review of the Windlass/MRL River Thames Mace reproduction of Craig's photo. The author, Greyson Blair, was also looking for a 14th century mace. http://myArmoury.com/review_mrl_rtmace.html

Arms and Armor used to make a version of this, but have discontinued it. I can't find it on Windlass either. Don't know if this speaks to provenance issues or what. You could always contact A&A and ask them about it.
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Michael Beeching





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PostPosted: Mon 16 Nov, 2015 3:15 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

A Windlass product currently offered which *may* fit into your timeframe is a bar mace, as seen here:

http://www.museumreplicas.com/p-543-bar-mace.aspx

If this flavor of weapon is appealing to you, it may even be worth considering having someone weld it up for you - maces are not generally made of spring steel, after all.

I think Windlass also used to sell cast mace heads - I'm not sure they do that anymore. However, I think Tod does, and you can see his selection here:

http://www.todsstuff.co.uk/todsfoundry/mace.htm

Do your own hafting, and you've got a quality reproduction at a very reasonable price.
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Shahril Dzulkifli




Location: Malaysia
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PostPosted: Thu 26 Nov, 2015 4:24 am    Post subject: Mid-14th century maces         Reply with quote

Man, that River Thames bar mace looks odd to me. We'll never know how does the real one look like.

“You have power over your mind - not outside events. Realize this, and you will find strength”

- Marcus Aurelius
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Mark Griffin




Location: The Welsh Marches, in the hills above Newtown, Powys.
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PostPosted: Thu 26 Nov, 2015 7:11 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Why does it look weird Sharil? Its certainly a fearsome lump.

The other b&w pic ts pretty similar to the later, more refined germanic ones. Flanges on a shaft...? what happens after that is anyone's guess but I visualise it on a wooden haft. Maybe the shaft extended all the way down.

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J. Nicolaysen




Location: Wyoming
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PostPosted: Thu 26 Nov, 2015 10:48 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Just looking at that bar mace makes my head hurt...
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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Thu 26 Nov, 2015 2:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Mid-14th century maces         Reply with quote

Shahril Dzulkifli wrote:
Man, that River Thames bar mace looks odd to me. We'll never know how does the real one look like.


Not true at all:





From this thread: http://myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=16748

Happy

ChadA

http://chadarnow.com/
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Shahril Dzulkifli




Location: Malaysia
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PostPosted: Sat 05 Dec, 2015 4:00 pm    Post subject: Mid-14th century maces         Reply with quote

So that's how a real bar mace supposed to look like. First I thought the mace looks weird due to its form though it isn't.
“You have power over your mind - not outside events. Realize this, and you will find strength”

- Marcus Aurelius
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Philip Dyer





Joined: 25 Jul 2013

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PostPosted: Sun 06 Dec, 2015 11:16 am    Post subject: Re: Mid-14th century maces         Reply with quote

Chad Arnow wrote:
Shahril Dzulkifli wrote:
Man, that River Thames bar mace looks odd to me. We'll never know how does the real one look like.


Not true at all:





From this thread: http://myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=16748

Any idea why there is a shrunken + section at the end of the bar mace? Any idea why the larger + section doesn't go all the way to the end of the mace?
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Mart Shearer




Location: Jackson, MS, USA
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PostPosted: Sun 06 Dec, 2015 1:31 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Shawn Caza's excellent collection review remains online.

Home page: http://otlichnik.tripod.com/medmace0.html
Medieval knobbed maces: http://otlichnik.tripod.com/medmace2.html
Medieval flanged maces: http://otlichnik.tripod.com/medmace3.html

ferrum ferro acuitur et homo exacuit faciem amici sui
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Mart Shearer




Location: Jackson, MS, USA
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PostPosted: Sun 06 Dec, 2015 1:49 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Manuscript Miniatures, 1300-1360, Tag: mace
http://manuscriptminiatures.com/search/?year=...anuscript=

There are also a number of wooden or reinforced wood cugels, staves, and clubs which appear in musters as bacculum.

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Timo Nieminen




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PostPosted: Sun 06 Dec, 2015 3:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Mid-14th century maces         Reply with quote

Philip Dyer wrote:
Chad Arnow wrote:

Any idea why there is a shrunken + section at the end of the bar mace? Any idea why the larger + section doesn't go all the way to the end of the mace?


Might be used to tie a cord/strap for carrying, or to make it sit nicely in a holder at the saddle, or in a rack for storage. (There are various weapons with features with similar functions, notably weapons without scabbards.)

"In addition to being efficient, all pole arms were quite nice to look at." - Cherney Berg, A hideous history of weapons, Collier 1963.
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Mart Shearer




Location: Jackson, MS, USA
Joined: 18 Aug 2012

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PostPosted: Tue 08 Dec, 2015 10:28 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

British Library Additional MS 47680, fo.61v Secretum Secretorum, 1326-1327, London, England
http://www.bl.uk/manuscripts/Viewer.aspx?ref=add_ms_47680_f061v



 Attachment: 170.89 KB
BL Additional 47680 fo061v.jpg


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Mart Shearer




Location: Jackson, MS, USA
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PostPosted: Tue 08 Dec, 2015 11:49 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The older faceted style remained in use, from the contemporary Oxford Christ Church Ms. 98, fo.73v, Liber de nobilitatibus, sapiencijs et prudencijs regum, 1326-1327, London, England.
http://viewer.bodleian.ox.ac.uk/christchurch/...p;page=153



 Attachment: 85.04 KB
Christ Church MS 92 fo073v.jpg


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Mart Shearer




Location: Jackson, MS, USA
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PostPosted: Wed 09 Dec, 2015 3:06 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Christ Church Ms. 92, fo.60r - Notice the turned grip and decoration on the haft. The crested bascinet is also really weird.
http://viewer.bodleian.ox.ac.uk/christchurch/...p;page=126



 Attachment: 237.25 KB
Christ Church MS 92 fo060r.jpg


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Mart Shearer




Location: Jackson, MS, USA
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PostPosted: Wed 16 Dec, 2015 12:06 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

An English bedel with mace apprehends a cutpurse. The Gorleston Psalter, British Library, Additional MS 49622, fo. 153r, bas-de-page marginalia, England, 1310-1324.
http://www.bl.uk/manuscripts/Viewer.aspx?ref=add_ms_49622_f153r

And the eternal combat vs. the snail on fo.185v.
http://www.bl.uk/manuscripts/Viewer.aspx?ref=add_ms_49622_f185v



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BL Additional 49622 fo153r.jpg
BL Additional 49622 fo153r.jpg

 Attachment: 134.86 KB
BL Additional 49622 fo185v.jpg
BL Additional 49622 fo185v.jpg

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