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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Sun 02 Mar, 2014 7:45 pm    Post subject: Kult of Athena: Phillipine edged weapons         Reply with quote

Oh, just noticed some interesting Philippine swords and knives available at Kult of Athena that some might find desirable as collectables and in certain cases would make good camping/bush /"zombie" survival tools. Wink

http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=...Balaisiong

http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=...o+Talibong

http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=...oro+Gunong

http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=...is+Sword+1

Above a few examples of the ones that I might be tempted to get: Not my usual period or place of interest but I sort of like aesthetically interesting designs that also seem intriguing on the functional side.

Assuming that these are of good quality they would be much better than the low quality " touristy stuff " one might find at a very cheap price and closer to quality originals but using modern materials.

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Roger Hooper




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PostPosted: Sun 02 Mar, 2014 7:58 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I liked this Sansibar - kind of a hybrid of East and West
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Michael Beeching





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PostPosted: Sun 02 Mar, 2014 9:02 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hopefully you fine gentlemen are aware of the home website for that company:

http://traditionalfilipinoweapons.com/Sandata.html

Indeed, the products they produce look very nice, and they're also quite affordable in comparison to some other items one might be tempted to purchase. The company has a few YouTube videos floating around out there as well:

https://www.youtube.com/user/RonOrGina?feature=watch

There's also an interesting lecture I don't have the time to sit all the way through right here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzIL1NZ9deM

That said, Filipino weapons are quite lovely to look at, and they have a martial arts system that uses short swords to wonderful effect. In watching an old BBC documentary on kali, I found the disarmament techniques looked very similar (but perhaps more matured) to the disarmament techniques one would perform with the messer. And considering that disarming an adversary is a primary focus of modern kali, I'd not be surprised if they have a more effective disarmament system than what most WMA practitioners engage in. My estimate would be that if one were to merge kali disarmaments with the messer's fighting system, you'd have quite an ideal practical sword combat system.

As a last note, any long Filipino sword is a short European one. About the only thing that comes close is the kampilan, which is a single-edged weapon. A large one may be comparable blade-length-wise to an arming sword, but with a longsword's grip. It's probably therefore more like a katana than anything else, but the dynamics would certainly be unique. I'd consider the other long weapon, the panabas, more of a short hafted-blade weapon than a true sword.
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Lin Robinson




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PostPosted: Mon 03 Mar, 2014 4:54 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Blades from the Philippines have certainly moved up in the world. When I was there in 1969/70 you could have bought any of the ones pictured for less than $20. The blades were made from leaf springs out of Jeeps and trucks, the brass was from shell casings and the wood was, of course, locally available. They were heavy and unbalanced but very tough and could hold a great edge. As KOA says, the wood will check and crack when exposed to our drier air. Over all that is a good looking set of blades.
Lin Robinson

"The best thing in life is to crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentation of their women." Conan the Barbarian, 1982
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Mark Moore




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PostPosted: Mon 03 Mar, 2014 6:29 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I quite like the looks of the Celtic sword. I can't, from the close up photos, see it having much of a tang. I'd be hesitant to cut with it. And at almost three-fifty, that's a rich wallflower. WTF?! ..........McM
''Life is like a box of chocolates...'' --- F. Gump
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Jeffrey Faulk




Location: Georgia
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PostPosted: Mon 03 Mar, 2014 8:48 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Mark Moore wrote:
I quite like the looks of the Celtic sword. I can't, from the close up photos, see it having much of a tang. I'd be hesitant to cut with it. And at almost three-fifty, that's a rich wallflower. WTF?! ..........McM


All TFW weapons are, from my understanding, supposed to be 'battle ready'. It has a threaded pommel which may explain why you can't see, for example, a peen. Good thing about it being threaded, you can take it apart and check it out for yourself... KOA's return policy has always been very decent.
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Dan P




Location: Massachusetts, USA
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PostPosted: Mon 03 Mar, 2014 9:35 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

My sister has a TFW sword, don't remember the word for it but it's got a straight edge on a downward curved blade, about 2 feet long. Its a real nice sword, but the wood they use to make the scabbard has warped and it's hard to draw or replace the blade.

I have TFW on my "someday" list but I'm trying to cut back on buying new things.
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Matthew G.M. Korenkiewicz




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PostPosted: Mon 03 Mar, 2014 12:30 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I've been admiring their catalogue for some time now, I think I might have
even posted its link here at one time, maybe on someone else's thread.

Only priorities in my recent interests, attempts at other projects, have kept
me from ordering something from them. That KoA has stocked some of
the items I find fascinating -- the pira cotabo, for instance -- MIGHT curve
my attentions back that away ...
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Mark Moore




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PostPosted: Tue 04 Mar, 2014 7:45 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well, Jeffrey......Why don't YOU buy one and take it apart. You can buy 'battle-ready' 'fully-functional' 'combat-worthy' swords and knives on the internet all day for the price of beans. My personal opinion: This stuff looks like way-overpriced wallhanger junk. Yeah....Some of it's pretty....Very nice wood carving...But the construction methods seem.....dubious. I'm sure I'll catch hell for this post, but so be it. That's my op, and I'm stickin' to it...............McM
''Life is like a box of chocolates...'' --- F. Gump
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Mark Moore




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PostPosted: Tue 04 Mar, 2014 8:08 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I apologize if my above reply seems combative or negative. Not meant towards you, Jeffrey. I just know that KOA has a great reputation, and I'd hate to see them selling junky stuff. I just simply mean, I would not try a cut with any of the longer blades. From the photos, the construction just looks weak. I could be wrong, and hope I am. Time will tell,I guess.....McM
''Life is like a box of chocolates...'' --- F. Gump
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Matthew G.M. Korenkiewicz




Location: Michigan, USA
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PostPosted: Tue 04 Mar, 2014 12:54 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Quote:
I apologize if my above reply seems combative or negative. Not meant towards you,
Jeffrey. I just know that KOA has a great reputation, and I'd hate to see them selling junky
stuff. I just simply mean, I would not try a cut with any of the longer blades. From the photos,
the construction just looks weak. I could be wrong, and hope I am. Time will tell,I guess.....McM


I know you're not necessarily pointing comments at me either, Mark ...

... A reason I have NOT purchased one of these items ( yet ) is that I haven't found
any disclosure or anything or one reporting on the length of the tangs " beneath "
the wooden grips. I'm rather fond of " full-tangs; " even considered commissioning
someone to make a pira cotabo for me ... The videos appear convincing, but then
how many other sword makers do we know of doing similar things ? Still, don't we
have to remember the price range we're talking about ? and what we have the right
to -- proportioanlly -- expect ? If you follow me ...

As for KoA selling " junky stuff " ... I think they do a great job covering a wide price
range of items, battle ready swords and just plain ol' pointy objects. I personally feel,
the lower-the-price ? maybe the lower-the-quality ... though I think there may also be
exceptions to that thought ( Kris Kutlery comes to mind ) ...
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Jeffrey Faulk




Location: Georgia
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PostPosted: Tue 04 Mar, 2014 1:54 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I didn't take personal offense. You're fine.

I do know for a fact that KOA stands behind whether they say something is "battle ready" or not. True, this includes the Deepeekas and such, but they do take the step of making sure customers know whether the product is suitable for cutting, combat, etc.

And let's be honest-- the tang is probably not a whole lot thicker than your typical gladius. Many if not most of those are perfectly fine.
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J. Hargis




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PostPosted: Tue 04 Mar, 2014 3:04 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Some of these pieces look downright cheap. Sorry for the vulgarity. This is not to tarnish KoA's reputation, who IMO have always been an excellent retailer.

Jon

A poorly maintained weapon is likely to belong to an unsafe and careless fighter.
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Timo Nieminen




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PostPosted: Tue 04 Mar, 2014 5:35 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Stick tangs. partial tangs, hidden tangs, or whatever you want to call them, are normal for lots of traditional Philippine weapons. Many of them are superb and robust cutters.

I would more criticise the TFW range for deviation from "traditional", especially with the "Traditional" in their name. But, more or less, OK.

Blades from the northern Philippines (e.g., Luzon) are more likely to have full length tangs, peened over a plate at the end of the wood/horn pommel. If that's what you prefer, go for it. Traditional barongs and kris are not done that way, but they work very well, if you try cutting with them.

"In addition to being efficient, all pole arms were quite nice to look at." - Cherney Berg, A hideous history of weapons, Collier 1963.
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Mikko Kuusirati




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PostPosted: Wed 05 Mar, 2014 4:12 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Timo Nieminen wrote:
Stick tangs. partial tangs, hidden tangs, or whatever you want to call them, are normal for lots of traditional Philippine weapons. Many of them are superb and robust cutters.

I would more criticise the TFW range for deviation from "traditional", especially with the "Traditional" in their name. But, more or less, OK.

Exactly.

(The same kind of construction is typical of seaxes, too, and who the heck doesn't love those? Happy)

FWIW, I have their Moro Kris #5. It's an excellent blade, cuts like a beast and the construction feels very sturdy. That said, the blade appears quite a bit flatter as a whole than I would expect from a historical weapon, and the decorative shapes at the base of the blade are simple cutouts as opposed to the much more intricate three-dimensional shapes of actually traditional kris. The polish is also a bit rough and not at all reminiscent of historical blades. IMO it works like a "traditional Filipino weapon", but looks unmistakably modern.

I'd say TFW is to Filipino weapons as Lutel is to European ones - you get what you pay for, and in this case the low price comes with simplified aesthetics, which in my view is better than compromised functionality.

The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing;
Rush in and die, dogs -- I was a man before I was a king.
-- R. E. Howard, The Road of Kings
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William M




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PostPosted: Wed 05 Mar, 2014 7:36 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hmmm, I am kind of surprised to see some negativity on these guys as although I have never purchased anything from them due to having plenty of real antique ones, I have always held them in high regard. Mostly because I actually think that the majority of their blades look spot on and there is a huge choice of some quite exotic blade types that you would be hard pressed to find an original one.

I am not a great fan of their scabbards where you have the latch to keep the blade secure. This is a fairly new innovation from them as I think they introduced this maybe three years ago. Perfect for if you actually want to use them in the forest but not so good for collectors as they do detract from the aesthetic appeal a little plus are not historically correct.

I would skip on the kris swords but will probably at some point in the future purchase a pira cotabato from them.
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