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M Boyd




Location: Northern Midlands, Tasmania
Joined: 16 Aug 2013

Posts: 63

PostPosted: Thu 12 Sep, 2013 12:27 am    Post subject: The knightly use of thev Chapel de fer         Reply with quote

I'm wondering about the "chapel de fer" helmet and whether it was considered a knightly armour option.
I see plenty of manuscript illustrations with infantry or men-at-arms on foot wearing them- seems to make sense with the brim adding additional defence from attacks from above, but I also see it on mounted soldiery.











So, my question is, was the "chapel de fer" style helmet a good choice for a knight or was it a poor/ under-dressed for a knight but fine for a retainer or soldier?


Last edited by M Boyd on Thu 12 Sep, 2013 5:26 am; edited 1 time in total
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Luka Borscak




Location: Croatia
Joined: 11 Jun 2007
Likes: 7 pages

Posts: 2,235

PostPosted: Thu 12 Sep, 2013 5:11 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Although mounted, well armoured warrior doesn't have to be a knight, I don't doubt some knights wanted more visual and breathing freedom and chose open faced helmets, chapel de fer or something else, doesn't really matter...
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M Boyd




Location: Northern Midlands, Tasmania
Joined: 16 Aug 2013

Posts: 63

PostPosted: Thu 12 Sep, 2013 5:35 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

http://cdn.ebaumsworld.com/mediaFiles/picture...272259.jpg
Looks like it made it through...
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Christopher B Lellis




Location: Houston, Texas
Joined: 01 Dec 2012

Posts: 268

PostPosted: Sun 15 Sep, 2013 10:24 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I haven't seen those pictures before, and I like them a lot.

Thanks.
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Iagoba Ferreira





Joined: 15 Sep 2008

Posts: 154

PostPosted: Fri 20 Sep, 2013 6:07 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here one can be seen in a lead seal of John II of Castille from 1422:


And even better:

From the Real Armerķa de Madrid, attributed to Philip the Handsome...probably the same one depicted in this portrait:


Ooops, you said knight, not king or emperor Razz
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Mart Shearer




Location: Jackson, MS, USA
Joined: 18 Aug 2012

Posts: 1,280

PostPosted: Fri 20 Sep, 2013 8:22 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

At the Battle of Mansourah, Joinville mentions knights switching to kettle hats because of the heat. Hoffmeyer gives other examples as well.
http://books.google.com/books?id=QmQFYZSMs-EC...mp;f=false

Mildenhall's 1344 account of the English Wardrobe includes a rather richly ornamented kettle hat, which was not made for your average burger.
38 kettle hats, one of hardened leather for the tournament, one of iron with a border of silver, embossed with gilded animals, and 36 of iron,

Then there's the parade version for Charles VI, minus it's enameled badges, retrieved in pieces from a well in the Louvre.
http://www.louvre.fr/en/oeuvre-notices/gilded...charles-vi

ferrum ferro acuitur et homo exacuit faciem amici sui
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