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Gabriele A. Pini




Location: Olgiate Comasco, Como
Joined: 02 Sep 2008

Posts: 239

PostPosted: Wed 31 Jul, 2013 12:13 am    Post subject: Weapons and armour from the S. Abbondio church - 1350         Reply with quote

This may interest someone: the apse from the church of s. Abbondio (Assertor et Defensor incarnationis Filii Dei) in Como, Italy. The church was built (as we can see it today) in 1040, but the pictures are dated 1340-1360.



I found the shields particularly interesting, for the forms and the clearly visibles straps pins.

Here http://www.flickriver.com/photos/renzodionigi...584588220/ you can find a complete set.
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Neil Melville




Location: Scotland
Joined: 27 Oct 2009

Posts: 181

PostPosted: Wed 31 Jul, 2013 3:52 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for posting these photos of the frescoes. Brilliant, and what about those weird nasals on some of the helmets?
I have been to Como but did not know about this church unfortunately. Grazie mille, Gabriele.
Neil

N Melville
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Randall Moffett




Location: Northern Utah
Joined: 07 Jun 2006
Reading list: 5 books

Posts: 2,094

PostPosted: Wed 31 Jul, 2013 7:52 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Very nice. That one helmet just left of center sure looks a great deal like a 15th century sallet!

Thanks for the pictures!

RPM
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Mart Shearer




Location: Jackson, MS, USA
Joined: 18 Aug 2012

Posts: 1,258

PostPosted: Thu 01 Aug, 2013 3:48 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The level of detail in the paintings is quite useful We recently had a discussion on Armour Archive concerning the plates, and I noticed the small chains retaining the shoulder hinge pins. Even the lining holes for the bascinet are clear.


 Attachment: 212.67 KB
St.Abbondio-hinges.jpg


ferrum ferro acuitur et homo exacuit faciem amici sui
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Mikko Kuusirati




Location: Finland
Joined: 16 Nov 2004
Reading list: 13 books

Posts: 931

PostPosted: Thu 01 Aug, 2013 5:37 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Wow! That's really impressive detail. And many of these are in remarkably good condition, too!

The bit that draws my attention in the posted picture is the combination of short mail sleeves (over a longer-sleeved padded garment) and long mail gauntlets with what looks like drawstrings at the cuffs, although none of them are tightened so they might just be ornamental...

The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing;
Rush in and die, dogs -- I was a man before I was a king.
-- R. E. Howard, The Road of Kings
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Mart Shearer




Location: Jackson, MS, USA
Joined: 18 Aug 2012

Posts: 1,258

PostPosted: Thu 01 Aug, 2013 6:51 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I don't think they're drawstrings for tightening the cuff, so much as a method to tie them together and hang them off the sword when not in use. Of course they could perform both functions.
ferrum ferro acuitur et homo exacuit faciem amici sui
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Mart Shearer




Location: Jackson, MS, USA
Joined: 18 Aug 2012

Posts: 1,258

PostPosted: Thu 01 Aug, 2013 7:10 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Randall Moffett wrote:
Very nice. That one helmet just left of center sure looks a great deal like a 15th century sallet!

Thanks for the pictures!

RPM


Compare to these other 14th century Italian examples.
http://armourinart.com/58/302/
http://armourinart.com/58/71/
http://manuscriptminiatures.com/3952/10867/

ferrum ferro acuitur et homo exacuit faciem amici sui
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Gabriele A. Pini




Location: Olgiate Comasco, Como
Joined: 02 Sep 2008

Posts: 239

PostPosted: Fri 02 Aug, 2013 4:51 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

From a pure "amateur" (it is not even my period of interest) point I appreciate this mace:



Has anyone see one like? It's possible that is a serragente (sarge) mace, more an authority symbol than a proper weapon?
The metal is golden in color, perhaps bronze or brass?
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Mikko Kuusirati




Location: Finland
Joined: 16 Nov 2004
Reading list: 13 books

Posts: 931

PostPosted: Fri 02 Aug, 2013 6:49 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Gabriele A. Pini wrote:
From a pure "amateur" (it is not even my period of interest) point I appreciate this mace:

(snip)

Has anyone see one like? It's possible that is a serragente (sarge) mace, more an authority symbol than a proper weapon?
The metal is golden in color, perhaps bronze or brass?

Well, it's a flanged mace with a wooden haft. The flanged form seems to have been much more popular in the 15th-16th Century (and at that point most maces had metal hafts, too), to the point that I'm having trouble finding images of 14th Century specimens... you can see some similar ones from that time here, though.

The color probably does represent bronze or brass (or latten), although if it's a sign of rank it could also be gilded.

Note that the guy behind him, to our left, is also holding a very similar weapon (out of frame except for the grip), and there's another one, this one in bare iron, in the first picture posted to this thread (the Kiss of Judas scene; you can see the mace right behind the head of the guy losing his ear, held by the dude with the weird gilded nasal guard on his helmet).

The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing;
Rush in and die, dogs -- I was a man before I was a king.
-- R. E. Howard, The Road of Kings
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Mart Shearer




Location: Jackson, MS, USA
Joined: 18 Aug 2012

Posts: 1,258

PostPosted: Fri 02 Aug, 2013 9:37 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

There are some 14th century iron flanged maces of similar form here:
http://otlichnik.tripod.com/medmace3.html

ferrum ferro acuitur et homo exacuit faciem amici sui
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