Info Favorites Register Log in
myArmoury.com Discussion Forums

Forum index Memberlist Usergroups Spotlight Topics Search
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Ingerli sword - Solingen (??) Reply to topic
This is a standard topic  
Author Message
Michal Spilka
Industry Professional



Location: Czech republic
Joined: 06 Mar 2011

Posts: 77

PostPosted: Tue 04 Jun, 2013 12:05 pm    Post subject: Ingerli sword - Solingen (??)         Reply with quote

I took a photo of sword Ingerli in Solingenīs museum. Do you know proportions of this sword?
Itīs really nice piece, Iīd like to forge it but unfortunately Klingenmuseum doesnī t respond.
Thanks for your help!




www.nielo-sword.com

Michal Spilka
Nielo - Sword
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Robert Môc
Industry Professional



Location: Zvolen Slovakia
Joined: 15 Mar 2013

Posts: 74

PostPosted: Wed 05 Jun, 2013 5:31 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

A sword is in Geibig book in scale.
View user's profile Send private message
Luka Borscak




Location: Croatia
Joined: 11 Jun 2007
Likes: 7 pages

Posts: 2,239

PostPosted: Wed 05 Jun, 2013 5:48 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Very interesting sword! Are there any signs that bronze decoration on the guard was covering more of a guard length before?
View user's profile Send private message
Jeremy V. Krause




Location: Buffalo, NY.
Joined: 20 Oct 2003
Likes: 1 page
Reading list: 1 book

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 1,500

PostPosted: Wed 05 Jun, 2013 8:36 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

What a strange but interesting looking sword.
View user's profile Send private message
Ian Hutchison




Location: Louisiana / Nordrhein-Westholland
Joined: 27 Nov 2007

Posts: 489

PostPosted: Wed 05 Jun, 2013 9:45 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Luka Borscak wrote:
Very interesting sword! Are there any signs that bronze decoration on the guard was covering more of a guard length before?


Luka, do you see the horizontal striations on the guard? I'm no craftsmen but I have noticed on others arms projects, and on jewelry, that similar looking channels are cut to allow the two metals to grip. So, to my uninformed eye, it looks possible that the guard was clad across the whole length.

'We are told that the pen is mightier than the sword, but I know which of these weapons I would choose.' - Adrian Carton de Wiart
View user's profile Send private message
Luka Borscak




Location: Croatia
Joined: 11 Jun 2007
Likes: 7 pages

Posts: 2,239

PostPosted: Wed 05 Jun, 2013 2:54 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ian Hutchison wrote:
Luka Borscak wrote:
Very interesting sword! Are there any signs that bronze decoration on the guard was covering more of a guard length before?


Luka, do you see the horizontal striations on the guard? I'm no craftsmen but I have noticed on others arms projects, and on jewelry, that similar looking channels are cut to allow the two metals to grip. So, to my uninformed eye, it looks possible that the guard was clad across the whole length.


Yes, I see and I know viking age hilts were usually cut with many fine grooves into which precious metals were hammered, but I was not sure is this the same case because the remains of the bronze plating look rather thick.
View user's profile Send private message
Ian Hutchison




Location: Louisiana / Nordrhein-Westholland
Joined: 27 Nov 2007

Posts: 489

PostPosted: Wed 05 Jun, 2013 3:35 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Luka Borscak wrote:
Ian Hutchison wrote:
Luka Borscak wrote:
Very interesting sword! Are there any signs that bronze decoration on the guard was covering more of a guard length before?


Luka, do you see the horizontal striations on the guard? I'm no craftsmen but I have noticed on others arms projects, and on jewelry, that similar looking channels are cut to allow the two metals to grip. So, to my uninformed eye, it looks possible that the guard was clad across the whole length.


Yes, I see and I know viking age hilts were usually cut with many fine grooves into which precious metals were hammered, but I was not sure is this the same case because the remains of the bronze plating look rather thick.


Yeah, it does look a little thick. At the same time I think it would look very natural to have the plating across the guard.

By the way, that is a really well shaped canoe style guard.

'We are told that the pen is mightier than the sword, but I know which of these weapons I would choose.' - Adrian Carton de Wiart
View user's profile Send private message
Tim Lison




Location: Chicago, Illinois
Joined: 05 Aug 2004
Likes: 1 page
Reading list: 6 books

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 1,516

PostPosted: Wed 05 Jun, 2013 9:56 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here's a pic for you. Couldn't find dimensions but thought this might help...


 Attachment: 47.24 KB
Untitled.jpg

View user's profile Send private message
Nils Anderssen




Location: Drammen, Norway
Joined: 08 Dec 2005

Posts: 61

PostPosted: Thu 06 Jun, 2013 6:02 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The last picture is taken from Alfred Geibig's book "Entwicklung des Schwertes im Mittelalter" and they are made to scale. The whole sword is 1:5 and the rest is 1:2. You just got to love those Germans...

The width of the crossguard is 57,8 mm in the book, so about 115,6 in real life Happy

You can then scale the picture acordingly and you will get the rest of the measurements.

I would like to note that the picture of the sword is probably distorted by the camera lense so it is probably not acurate, but should give you an general idea...

When looking at the picture of the sword i almost expected the grip to be longer, but it turned out to be a fairly short bladet vikingsword.

If you do not own that book I can higly recomend it. It has pictures of about 164 swords all done in scale.
View user's profile Send private message
Peter Johnsson
Industry Professional



Location: Storvreta, Sweden
Joined: 27 Aug 2003
Reading list: 1 book

Spotlight topics: 3
Posts: 1,757

PostPosted: Thu 06 Jun, 2013 6:23 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

This is a sword I have looked at several times during my visits to the Klingenmuseum. I have not documented it yet but I hope to do so some time.

My impression is that the decoration on the guard is all there originally was. The lines are simply strands in the structure of the iron.
It is a rather short and small sword. Very beautiful. With the gold applications it give a feel of being a relic of some kind. It has a serene presence.
I have not held it, but I expect that it feels light in the hand. A short and handy sword. The hilt is "normal" size, but the blade is shorter than the norm.

Hope these impressions help.
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Daniel Wallace




Location: Pennsylvania USA
Joined: 07 Aug 2011

Posts: 580

PostPosted: Thu 06 Jun, 2013 8:33 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Peter Johnsson wrote:


My impression is that the decoration on the guard is all there originally was. The lines are simply strands in the structure of the iron.




in looking at the sword all together, the strands on the iron look to be congruent with the weathering on the rest of the sword. if these were some kind of inlay channels i would think they would be much deeper in the guard and have worn way a lot more of the guard over time. in my own experience with inlaying materials, you make the channels about 1/3 as deep as the material your inlaying, even with small gage wire the cut channel will be quite deep.
View user's profile Send private message
Michal Spilka
Industry Professional



Location: Czech republic
Joined: 06 Mar 2011

Posts: 77

PostPosted: Thu 06 Jun, 2013 11:57 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thank you guys for your help!
Picture with scales – thatīs exactly what I wanted. Super!
Itīs really interesting sword, I couldnīt take my eyes off! Beautiful Frankish work.Gold-plated ornament. I think itīs not decorated on other parts. The inscription is well seen on this pic (despite reflection) http://www.nielo-sword.com/foto/in/ . I saw it on another sword too.
Do you know the meaning of „INGERLI“ (ingerlii) inscription?

Michal Spilka
Nielo - Sword
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Luka Borscak




Location: Croatia
Joined: 11 Jun 2007
Likes: 7 pages

Posts: 2,239

PostPosted: Thu 06 Jun, 2013 1:17 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It's actually INGELRI, not INGERLI. It is thought that it is a name.
View user's profile Send private message
Richard Hare




Location: Alberta, canada
Joined: 15 Mar 2008

Posts: 135

PostPosted: Sat 08 Mar, 2014 8:41 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The horizontal striations in the guard are quite usual in objects made of wrought iron.
Similar striations can often be seen even in 18th and 18th century gun & sword fittings. With age these lines become apparent, but need not show when the piece is new.
I don't think the guard on this sword was covered with decoration like the remaining pieces.
For a start I thought maybe covered with a different metal ie, silver, but see none of the tell-tale scoring /koftgari type lines usually present when a layer of precious metal is applied.
Possibly blued finish, with contrasting bronze areas?
Just a guess of course!
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Shahril Dzulkifli




Location: Malaysia
Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Likes: 1 page

Posts: 1,265

PostPosted: Mon 10 Mar, 2014 6:36 am    Post subject: Ingelri sword - Solingen (??)         Reply with quote

It will be a good idea if the Ingelri sword is reproduced.

“You have power over your mind - not outside events. Realize this, and you will find strength”

- Marcus Aurelius
View user's profile Send private message


Display posts from previous:   
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Ingerli sword - Solingen (??)
Page 1 of 1 Reply to topic
All times are GMT - 8 Hours

View previous topic :: View next topic
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum






All contents © Copyright 2003-2018 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Basic Low-bandwidth Version of the forum