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Ujvári Ádám




Location: Hungary
Joined: 31 Mar 2013

Posts: 3

PostPosted: Tue 14 May, 2013 10:59 am    Post subject: " Basecap" Bascinet Helmet         Reply with quote

Hi everybody!

I found this picture and i saw this type of helmet in the Battle of the Nations a lot of, but i know nothing about this. Anybody have any information about it?



Thanks!
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Jeffrey Faulk




Location: Georgia
Joined: 01 Jan 2011

Posts: 578

PostPosted: Tue 14 May, 2013 11:35 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

My guess is that it is a modern design derived from the burgonet helmet as much as the older bascinet design. The heavy bill on the burgonet is useful for facial protection as it can help stop blades from hitting your face, as well as giving some rigidity to the forehead.

I am fairly sure there were never any bascinets with a 'beak' like this... burgonets, on the other hand, have it as an essential part of their design. In fact, if it were not for the mail aventail, I would call this a burgonet rather than a bascinet.
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Augusto Boer Bront
Industry Professional



Location: Cividale del Friuli (UD) Italy
Joined: 12 Nov 2009

Posts: 259

PostPosted: Tue 14 May, 2013 11:41 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Lol.
https://plus.google.com/photos/115962623729091930300/albums/5433287750914154321/5433308390985867858?banner=pwa

Armourer-Artist-Blacksmith
www.magisterarmorum.com

Pinterest albums to almost all existing XIVth century armour.
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Ujvári Ádám




Location: Hungary
Joined: 31 Mar 2013

Posts: 3

PostPosted: Tue 14 May, 2013 1:22 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanx!

I found this!

http://citadelblog.ru/bacinet-s-kozyrkom/
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Jeffrey Faulk




Location: Georgia
Joined: 01 Jan 2011

Posts: 578

PostPosted: Tue 14 May, 2013 2:40 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

And there's some egg on my face Happy

To be fair, though, both your links show the exact same image. If this isn't a fake, then it's certainly an interesting specimen... possibly an one-off, though?
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Augusto Boer Bront
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Location: Cividale del Friuli (UD) Italy
Joined: 12 Nov 2009

Posts: 259

PostPosted: Tue 14 May, 2013 2:52 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nope. There is some Italian art showing that kind of bascinets (Flos Duellatorum, for example).
It wasn't common yes, but wasn't unique. =)

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Aleksei Sosnovski





Joined: 04 Mar 2008

Posts: 313

PostPosted: Wed 15 May, 2013 3:17 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Any images of such bascinets with aventails? Would be good to collect them here.
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Augusto Boer Bront
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Location: Cividale del Friuli (UD) Italy
Joined: 12 Nov 2009

Posts: 259

PostPosted: Wed 15 May, 2013 3:26 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well, the one I posted has vervelles, so presumably it had an aventail attached.
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Aleksei Sosnovski





Joined: 04 Mar 2008

Posts: 313

PostPosted: Wed 15 May, 2013 4:20 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

There is a theory that on that particular bascinet the bill was likely attached much later than the helmet itself was made. I am most interested in the pictorial evidence. So far I have seen quite a lot of burgonet-like helmets, but all of them are depicted either being worn without any face protection at all or with a bevor. And most of them seem to either have a rudimentary "tail" or flare out like some Italian salades and barbutas.
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Asger Kjćrgaard




Location: Odense, Denmark
Joined: 05 Jun 2006

Posts: 6

PostPosted: Thu 24 Oct, 2013 6:29 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

To poke the topic again - the "historical" specimen should be at this museum:

http://www.musees-valais.ch/musee-dhistoire.html

under the museum inventory No.: MV 24-83

I find it odd that this particular specimen is not noted in the article on this site:
http://www.myArmoury.com/feature_spot_bascinet.html

since the the article referes to the museum

Quote:
One in the Museum of Valais, Sion (MV30-83 German)


I'm voting fake as well - tho for the interest i'd like to know if anyone can do something with the inventory number.

I have tried reaching the museum via mail without luck, so if anyone can clear this one i'd be happy Happy

Asger Kjćrgaard
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Kel Rekuta




Location: Toronto, Canada
Joined: 10 Feb 2004
Likes: 1 page

Posts: 612

PostPosted: Thu 24 Oct, 2013 8:31 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Asger Kjćrgaard wrote:
To poke the topic again - the "historical" specimen should be at this museum:

http://www.musees-valais.ch/musee-dhistoire.html

under the museum inventory No.: MV 24-83

I find it odd that this particular specimen is not noted in the article on this site:
http://www.myArmoury.com/feature_spot_bascinet.html

since the the article referes to the museum

Quote:
One in the Museum of Valais, Sion (MV30-83 German)


I'm voting fake as well - tho for the interest i'd like to know if anyone can do something with the inventory number.

I have tried reaching the museum via mail without luck, so if anyone can clear this one i'd be happy Happy


The myArmoury article cites clear examples of a particular regional or developmental specimens of bascinets. There is no reason they would have included a common bascinet shell that had been modified later to extend its working life. Whether it was modified to resemble a burgonet or simply to add the brim that many Italian celata had is the question worth pursuing.
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Ujvári Ádám




Location: Hungary
Joined: 31 Mar 2013

Posts: 3

PostPosted: Wed 11 Dec, 2013 2:09 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Spinello Aretino, storie di San Benedetto.(1385 1405)+

http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/e4/d5/...431ce3.jpg
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Aleksei Sosnovski





Joined: 04 Mar 2008

Posts: 313

PostPosted: Thu 12 Dec, 2013 12:41 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I wouldn't call it a bascinet. It's more like a deep celata with a pointed scull. Note the flared lower edge and no aventail. And the aventail is the key point here. This image proves what has been said before: celatas and early "bourgonets" with either open face or a bevor - yes, bascinets with aventails - no.
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