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Alexi Goranov
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PostPosted: Fri 03 Dec, 2004 5:47 pm    Post subject: Guy Laking's definitive work         Reply with quote

I just stumbled on very encouraging information. Sir Guy Laking's seminal work "A Record of European Armour & Arms Through Seven Centuries (5 vol. set)" is getting reprinted in 2005 ISBN: 0404183441. The current pre-order price is $295 on Amazon.com. I know it is 1/2 the price of a sword but I will definitely get it. It is still better than the lowest price I found for the old edition ($1749.5).

There is also a new "Catalogue of the European Armor and Arms in the Wallace Collection at Hertford House" by G. Laking.
It is published September 2004, ISBN: 1417949341. I wonder how much overlap is there between this book and the "old" 2 or 3 volume set from 1962?

Now if only Jan Petersen's work gets reptinted.........

Alexi
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Greyson Brown




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PostPosted: Sat 04 Dec, 2004 4:34 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Alexi Goranov wrote:
Now if only Jan Petersen's work gets reptinted.........


And The Sword in the Age of Chivalry....

-Grey

"So long as I can keep the path of honor I am well content."
-Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, The White Company
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Patrick Kelly




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PostPosted: Sat 04 Dec, 2004 6:14 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Greyson Brown wrote:
Alexi Goranov wrote:
Now if only Jan Petersen's work gets reptinted.........


And The Sword in the Age of Chivalry....

-Grey


I'll second that!

"In valor there is hope.".................. Tacitus
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Alexi Goranov
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PostPosted: Sat 04 Dec, 2004 8:15 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Greyson Brown wrote:
Alexi Goranov wrote:
Now if only Jan Petersen's work gets reptinted.........


And The Sword in the Age of Chivalry....

-Grey


"The sword in the age of chivalry" (by E. Oackeshott) IS reprinted. I bought mine new a few months back for about $20.

Alexi
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Adam Lloyd




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PostPosted: Sun 05 Dec, 2004 12:40 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Isn't the Sir Guy Laking stuff all filled with Victorian assumptions that end up being very inaccurate info? A lot of research has been done since then and makes it simply wrong kind of like Stone and those authors. Please correct me if I'm wrong as I mean no offense
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Alexi Goranov
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PostPosted: Sun 05 Dec, 2004 12:54 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Adam Lloyd wrote:
Isn't the Sir Guy Laking stuff all filled with Victorian assumptions that end up being very inaccurate info? A lot of research has been done since then and makes it simply wrong kind of like Stone and those authors. Please correct me if I'm wrong as I mean no offense


It has long been the standard reference for arms and armor (mostly armor). I know Oakesott expressed disagreement with some hypotheses put forth by Laking ( for example the evolution of the viking pommels) but that does not mean that Laking's work is not worth reading and understanding.

It should also be a nice catalogue of arms an armor, which is enough to make it worth the money.

Alexi
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Greyson Brown




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PostPosted: Sun 05 Dec, 2004 5:33 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Alexi,

Thanks! Last time I checked that was not the case. I guess I'll have to order a copy.

-Grey

"So long as I can keep the path of honor I am well content."
-Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, The White Company
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Russ Ellis
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PostPosted: Mon 06 Dec, 2004 6:03 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Great news although I shudder to shell out that much for a book. Of course that's why my reference library is so weak in general in the first place...
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Greyson Brown




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PostPosted: Mon 06 Dec, 2004 2:05 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Russ,

If you are willing to go with a paperback, Amazon.com has The Sword in the Age of Chivalry for $24. I admit that $65 for the hard bound is more than I want to spend, but is not unreasonable. Since the Laking is a 5 volume set (as I understand), that comes out to slightly less than $60 a book. If they are hardbound, as I suspect they are, then the price really isn't all that bad. That doesn't meant that I am going to rush out and buy it, but I'm rather cheap.

-Grey

"So long as I can keep the path of honor I am well content."
-Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, The White Company
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Adam Lloyd




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PostPosted: Mon 06 Dec, 2004 5:11 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Alexi Goranov wrote:
It has long been the standard reference for arms and armor (mostly armor). I know Oakesott expressed disagreement with some hypotheses put forth by Laking ( for example the evolution of the viking pommels) but that does not mean that Laking's work is not worth reading and understanding.

It should also be a nice catalogue of arms an armor, which is enough to make it worth the money.

Alexi


Thanks Alexi!
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Russ Ellis
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PostPosted: Tue 07 Dec, 2004 5:50 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Greyson Brown wrote:
Russ,

If you are willing to go with a paperback, Amazon.com has The Sword in the Age of Chivalry for $24. I admit that $65 for the hard bound is more than I want to spend, but is not unreasonable. Since the Laking is a 5 volume set (as I understand), that comes out to slightly less than $60 a book. If they are hardbound, as I suspect they are, then the price really isn't all that bad. That doesn't meant that I am going to rush out and buy it, but I'm rather cheap.

-Grey


Hey Grey,

I was referring to the Laking set, I've long since bought The Sword in the Age of Chivalry. Happy I did not realize that it was a 5 volume set, that makes it a bit more palatable doesn't it?

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Brian W. Rainey




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PostPosted: Tue 07 Dec, 2004 11:17 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The Laking reprint that you are refering to does not exist. Call the publisher if you want a verification.

The publisher has been pushing the publish date forward for a LONG time... for more than a few years. I have been watching it since about 2001, IIRC.

Do yourself a favor and spend your $295 elsewhere. I can lead you in a decent direction for armour books, if you would like.

There was a VERY limitted reprint done a few years back through Trotman, I believe. However it was limited to only 100 copies, I believe. The quality of the pictures in the reprint was less than desirable. I have a photocopy of an original and the reprint wasn't much better.

The information in the book is excellent. While there are things in it that have been revisited over the years, it is still a definitive work. The reason being is that much of what Laking touched on has yet to be refuted in any formal fashion.

There are a number of pictures in the book on pieces of armour that are no longer in the state shown in 7 Centuries. A bascinet from the Met's reserve collection, for one.

If you are looking for a substitute to laking's 7 Centuries, grab anything by Blair. I would suggest articles by J.G. Man, also.

Check here for books and let me know if you want any information on anything in either collection:

http://www.armourguild.org/members/brian/booklist.html
http://talbotsfineaccessories.com/armour/BOOKLIST.htm

Brian W. Rainey
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Russ Ellis
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PostPosted: Tue 07 Dec, 2004 12:28 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Drat! Thanks for the tips Brian...
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Tue 07 Dec, 2004 12:33 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I just wanted to say that I agree fully with Brian. The Laking set is an imperative piece of any book collection, but not something I would suggest to anybody who's not already built a significant library already. As with any collection, choices have to be made during the building of a library and there are many, many other titles that I'd consider absolutely necessary over Laking. In fact, I'd say without these other titles to "ground" or refute some of the material in the Laking books, one might get an incomplete picture of the subject by relying on Laking alone.
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Brian W. Rainey




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PostPosted: Tue 07 Dec, 2004 12:45 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nathan Robinson wrote:
I just wanted to say that I agree fully with Brian. The Laking set is an imperative piece of any book collection, but not something I would suggest to anybody who's not already built a significant library already. As with any collection, choices have to be made during the building of a library and there are many, many other titles that I'd consider absolutely necessary over Laking. In fact, I'd say without these other titles to "ground" or refute some of the material in the Laking books, one might get an incomplete picture of the subject by relying on Laking alone.


On that note;

I could put together a bibliography of cornerstone works, if you would like? Is there anything similar on the site right now?

Brian W. Rainey
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Alexi Goranov
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PostPosted: Tue 07 Dec, 2004 12:48 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Brian W. Rainey wrote:
The Laking reprint that you are refering to does not exist. Call the publisher if you want a verification.

The publisher has been pushing the publish date forward for a LONG time... for more than a few years. I have been watching it since about 2001, IIRC.

Do yourself a favor and spend your $295 elsewhere. I can lead you in a decent direction for armour books, if you would like.

There was a VERY limitted reprint done a few years back through Trotman, I believe. However it was limited to only 100 copies, I believe. The quality of the pictures in the reprint was less than desirable. I have a photocopy of an original and the reprint wasn't much better.

The information in the book is excellent. While there are things in it that have been revisited over the years, it is still a definitive work. The reason being is that much of what Laking touched on has yet to be refuted in any formal fashion.

There are a number of pictures in the book on pieces of armour that are no longer in the state shown in 7 Centuries. A bascinet from the Met's reserve collection, for one.

If you are looking for a substitute to laking's 7 Centuries, grab anything by Blair. I would suggest articles by J.G. Man, also.

Check here for books and let me know if you want any information on anything in either collection:

http://www.armourguild.org/members/brian/booklist.html
http://talbotsfineaccessories.com/armour/BOOKLIST.htm


This is informative.

I know that the book I was referring to is listed as coming to print in Dec. 2005, so yes it does not yet exist.
Well then I will try to catch something else.........the Curburg armoury Catalogues for "mere" $860. (not for now....)
I will look for the references you pointed and see if something is available now-a-days.

Alexi
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Patrick Kelly




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PostPosted: Tue 07 Dec, 2004 12:54 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

*If* this does reach print I'll surely buy one. I've read laking but never owned a copy.

I do have to agree on the subject of this as a definitive reference. It's a great addition to any library but should not serve as the foundation for one. Laking's information has been surpassed by more up to date rescources in many areas.

It would be nice to have it on my shelf though.

"In valor there is hope.".................. Tacitus
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Alexi Goranov
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PostPosted: Tue 07 Dec, 2004 2:26 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Patrick Kelly wrote:
*If* this does reach print I'll surely buy one. I've read laking but never owned a copy.

I do have to agree on the subject of this as a definitive reference. It's a great addition to any library but should not serve as the foundation for one. Laking's information has been surpassed by more up to date rescources in many areas.

It would be nice to have it on my shelf though.


I second that. Lets just hope that it ever reaches the press.

Meanwhile, I'd have to "get by" with some Claude Blair books which appear to be readily available and cheep too.

Alexi
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Adam Lloyd




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PostPosted: Tue 07 Dec, 2004 2:29 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

can you list Claude Blair's books that you'd suggest?
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PostPosted: Tue 07 Dec, 2004 2:56 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Brian W. Rainey wrote:
Nathan Robinson wrote:
I just wanted to say that I agree fully with Brian. The Laking set is an imperative piece of any book collection, but not something I would suggest to anybody who's not already built a significant library already. As with any collection, choices have to be made during the building of a library and there are many, many other titles that I'd consider absolutely necessary over Laking. In fact, I'd say without these other titles to "ground" or refute some of the material in the Laking books, one might get an incomplete picture of the subject by relying on Laking alone.


On that note;

I could put together a bibliography of cornerstone works, if you would like? Is there anything similar on the site right now?


I'd like to see something like this on myArmoury. It would be a great reference. Plus I'm a manager for Border Books so I can get the material cheap . . . hehehehehe.

Seriously though. I think that a collection of "important" sword and armour works would be an invaluable resource.
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