Info Favorites Register Log in
myArmoury.com Discussion Forums

Forum index Memberlist Usergroups Spotlight Topics Search
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Coif tailoring project Reply to topic
This is a standard topic  
Author Message
Brian Robson





Joined: 19 Feb 2007

Posts: 185

PostPosted: Tue 23 Apr, 2013 7:20 am    Post subject: Coif tailoring project         Reply with quote

Yup - being spurred on by other recent threads here, I'm revisiting my coif. I know I posted it last year - but since I'm now making (what are hopefully) further improvements - I'm re-posting the link which includes the work done so far and also the recent work at the bottom.

Enjoy..

http://dawnofchivalry.wikispaces.com/Mail+Coif+-+Biro%27s+project
View user's profile Send private message
Mart Shearer




Location: Jackson, MS, USA
Joined: 18 Aug 2012

Posts: 1,281

PostPosted: Tue 23 Apr, 2013 5:33 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks Brian!
It looks like you're moving to a better looking profile and fit, as well as discovering the eaisiest methods for getting into and out of this style coif. One possibility to consider might be running the brow thong through the entire upper chin opening, and then running it through the mail at the brow. I wonder if this miniature doesn't show the coif ties draping at the back? The loose bag at the chin seems common in that particular Arthurian manuscript.
http://manuscriptminiatures.com/arthurian-rom...s229/3649/

ferrum ferro acuitur et homo exacuit faciem amici sui
View user's profile Send private message
Brian Robson





Joined: 19 Feb 2007

Posts: 185

PostPosted: Wed 24 Apr, 2013 1:34 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Now that is interesting... I've only seen images so far showing the mail to be very form-fitting.. Perhaps this one is a litte more realistic and we shouldn't get so hung up about having a snug fit...

I guess thinking about it, looser mail will absorb some of the energy from the blow before passing it on to the face - so it would be better in terms of protection... Its also better in terms of movement. (The downside is more mail = additional weight).
I tried making an integral coif some time back (with butted) and couldn't figure out how to have enough 'give' in the mail around the neck to allow full head movement without being left with significant 'bagginess' around the neck - and so gave it up. I wonder if I wasn't too far off afterall...

I think I still have scope to get a slightly better fit without too much effort - but this makes me think that that will do.

On the brow cord going through the opening - I think that would work with other styles of coif - but it isn't needed here. I've managed to get the ventail shaped well enough so the face opening is the right size based only on the cord holding it in place at each temple. What shapes it around and under the chin is a little shaping in the ventail itself - but mainly tightly pulling the back point of each side of the ventail to the back of the head. This pulls the whole thing back and tightens up at the throat and sides of the neck. It's difficult to explain but if there's interest, when it's done, I'll try and do a seperate write-up showing how I would build it from a new off-the-peg coif from scratch rather than the organic, trial-and-error process I went through = it may make it a little clearer.. (I think it would be surprisingly easy to do, too)
View user's profile Send private message
P. Schontzler




Location: WA, USA
Joined: 15 Apr 2013

Posts: 99

PostPosted: Wed 24 Apr, 2013 9:30 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Speculation here: could it be that the hanging mail from the chin is intended to act as a protection for the throat? A mail-covered neck is still very vulnerable without a gorget or great helm, correct?
View user's profile Send private message
Mart Shearer




Location: Jackson, MS, USA
Joined: 18 Aug 2012

Posts: 1,281

PostPosted: Wed 24 Apr, 2013 11:26 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

No reason a gorget can't be worn beneath the mail along with the cervelliere.


ferrum ferro acuitur et homo exacuit faciem amici sui
View user's profile Send private message
Brian Robson





Joined: 19 Feb 2007

Posts: 185

PostPosted: Fri 26 Apr, 2013 6:47 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I may have just had a bit of a revelation...

While trying it on, I fastened up only one side of the ventail, letting the other side hang down.. I picked up the front corner of the loose side and held it to my temple. It looked almost exactly as the effigies with another style of ventail - where it has a an almost triangular section going to a single tie at the temple...

I'm starting to wonder if that was possibly a design change from my initial (symmetrical) design made to make it easier to open the ventail for air/cooling/talking etc...

Now I have a dilemma - continue with the symmetrical design I was planning - or make it the easy-fastening version. I'm thinking I could fix the orignal side of the ventail to the main thong that holds the coif on - so there is only one again.. and put the hook back in for the other side to hook to the temple area..... It could potentially be so simple - both in design an ease of putting on/taking off....
View user's profile Send private message
Robert MacPherson
Industry Professional



Location: Jeffersonville USA
Joined: 27 Feb 2008

Posts: 141

PostPosted: Sat 27 Apr, 2013 10:34 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Brian,

I get the impression that both symmetrical and asymmetrical configurations were used. They may be tailored differently. I would recommend sticking to the symmetrical thing until you have it nailed before getting sidetracked with the asymmetrical thing.

Mac

Robert MacPherson
http://www.lightlink.com/armory/
http://billyandcharlie.com/
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Mart Shearer




Location: Jackson, MS, USA
Joined: 18 Aug 2012

Posts: 1,281

PostPosted: Sat 27 Apr, 2013 11:24 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Indeed. I suspect Brian's three categories of attached coif construction might well be expanded to 5-6 types.
ferrum ferro acuitur et homo exacuit faciem amici sui
View user's profile Send private message
P. Schontzler




Location: WA, USA
Joined: 15 Apr 2013

Posts: 99

PostPosted: Sun 28 Apr, 2013 9:19 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

What material are you using for mail?
View user's profile Send private message
Brian Robson





Joined: 19 Feb 2007

Posts: 185

PostPosted: Mon 29 Apr, 2013 3:21 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

P. Schontzler wrote:
What material are you using for mail?


The original coif (before I started modifying it) and additional rings were bought here:

http://www.capapie.co.uk/index.php?route=prod...duct_id=75

Mild steel it says in the description. (by the way it looks like it has been improved a little since I bought mine a few years ago - I'm sure mine was much more open at the neck. Shame I don't have any pictures from before I started modifying it.


Anyway, I've made a few more minor adjustments - have a few more still to make but I should be ready to pust up some pictures with it open, down etc. sometime during the week.
View user's profile Send private message
Robert MacPherson
Industry Professional



Location: Jeffersonville USA
Joined: 27 Feb 2008

Posts: 141

PostPosted: Mon 29 Apr, 2013 4:59 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Brian Robson wrote:

Anyway, I've made a few more minor adjustments - have a few more still to make but I should be ready to pust up some pictures with it open, down etc. sometime during the week.


Brian,

Sounds great! I think we all look forward to seeing it.

Mac

Robert MacPherson
http://www.lightlink.com/armory/
http://billyandcharlie.com/
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Brian Robson





Joined: 19 Feb 2007

Posts: 185

PostPosted: Mon 29 Apr, 2013 3:53 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I can't figure out how to post pictures here without uploading to the web first - so it seemed simpler just to create a new wiki page and link it here...

More pics - including a rough guid of how I would try to build it from scratch (If I'd know what I know now):

http://dawnofchivalry.wikispaces.com/Mail+Coif+-+Guide
View user's profile Send private message
Robert MacPherson
Industry Professional



Location: Jeffersonville USA
Joined: 27 Feb 2008

Posts: 141

PostPosted: Mon 29 Apr, 2013 7:37 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Brian Robson wrote:
I can't figure out how to post pictures here without uploading to the web first - so it seemed simpler just to create a new wiki page and link it here...

More pics - including a rough guid of how I would try to build it from scratch (If I'd know what I know now):

http://dawnofchivalry.wikispaces.com/Mail+Coif+-+Guide


Thank you for posting the new stuff, Brian.


Mac

Robert MacPherson
http://www.lightlink.com/armory/
http://billyandcharlie.com/
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Mart Shearer




Location: Jackson, MS, USA
Joined: 18 Aug 2012

Posts: 1,281

PostPosted: Sun 25 Aug, 2013 6:28 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here's another odd example to consider: Louvre Inv. No. RF4217, Recumbent statue fragment from the tomb of Jean de Seygnelay, Lord of Beaumont (d. about 1296) Around 1300. From: church of St. Marien (Auxerre).


Although there is damage, it appears the decorated strap runs beneath the mail, rather than through the (now missing) rings of the brow. Attached is a slightly more frontal view, and it seems there is also a remnant of the strap on the left side of the face as well.



 Attachment: 139.3 KB
Louvre Inv. No. RF4217.jpg


ferrum ferro acuitur et homo exacuit faciem amici sui
View user's profile Send private message
Randall Moffett




Location: Northern Utah
Joined: 07 Jun 2006
Reading list: 5 books

Posts: 2,098

PostPosted: Sun 25 Aug, 2013 6:42 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Brian,

Is the faced flap loose on yours? If not how do you have it attached? It sort of looks like it is hooked together with the main coif on the chin but I cannot tell from the pictures of notes. Looks very nice and great shape.

RPM
View user's profile Send private message


Display posts from previous:   
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Coif tailoring project
Page 1 of 1 Reply to topic
All times are GMT - 8 Hours

View previous topic :: View next topic
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum






All contents © Copyright 2003-2018 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Basic Low-bandwidth Version of the forum