[Brian Robson]

Yup - being spurred on by other recent threads here, I'm revisiting my coif. I know I posted it last year - but since I'm now making (what are hopefully) further improvements - I'm re-posting the link which includes the work done so far and also the recent work at the bottom.

Enjoy..

http://dawnofchivalry.wikispaces.com/Mail+Coif+-+Biro%27s+project

[Mart Shearer]

Thanks Brian!
It looks like you're moving to a better looking profile and fit, as well as discovering the eaisiest methods for getting into and out of this style coif. One possibility to consider might be running the brow thong through the entire upper chin opening, and then running it through the mail at the brow. I wonder if this miniature doesn't show the coif ties draping at the back? The loose bag at the chin seems common in that particular Arthurian manuscript.
http://manuscriptminiatures.com/arthurian-rom...s229/3649/

[Brian Robson]

Now that is interesting... I've only seen images so far showing the mail to be very form-fitting.. Perhaps this one is a litte more realistic and we shouldn't get so hung up about having a snug fit...

I guess thinking about it, looser mail will absorb some of the energy from the blow before passing it on to the face - so it would be better in terms of protection... Its also better in terms of movement. (The downside is more mail = additional weight).
I tried making an integral coif some time back (with butted) and couldn't figure out how to have enough 'give' in the mail around the neck to allow full head movement without being left with significant 'bagginess' around the neck - and so gave it up. I wonder if I wasn't too far off afterall...

I think I still have scope to get a slightly better fit without too much effort - but this makes me think that that will do.

On the brow cord going through the opening - I think that would work with other styles of coif - but it isn't needed here. I've managed to get the ventail shaped well enough so the face opening is the right size based only on the cord holding it in place at each temple. What shapes it around and under the chin is a little shaping in the ventail itself - but mainly tightly pulling the back point of each side of the ventail to the back of the head. This pulls the whole thing back and tightens up at the throat and sides of the neck. It's difficult to explain but if there's interest, when it's done, I'll try and do a seperate write-up showing how I would build it from a new off-the-peg coif from scratch rather than the organic, trial-and-error process I went through = it may make it a little clearer.. (I think it would be surprisingly easy to do, too)

[P. Schontzler]

Speculation here: could it be that the hanging mail from the chin is intended to act as a protection for the throat? A mail-covered neck is still very vulnerable without a gorget or great helm, correct?

[Mart Shearer]

No reason a gorget can't be worn beneath the mail along with the cervelliere.

[Brian Robson]

I may have just had a bit of a revelation...

While trying it on, I fastened up only one side of the ventail, letting the other side hang down.. I picked up the front corner of the loose side and held it to my temple. It looked almost exactly as the effigies with another style of ventail - where it has a an almost triangular section going to a single tie at the temple...

I'm starting to wonder if that was possibly a design change from my initial (symmetrical) design made to make it easier to open the ventail for air/cooling/talking etc...

Now I have a dilemma - continue with the symmetrical design I was planning - or make it the easy-fastening version. I'm thinking I could fix the orignal side of the ventail to the main thong that holds the coif on - so there is only one again.. and put the hook back in for the other side to hook to the temple area..... It could potentially be so simple - both in design an ease of putting on/taking off....

[Robert MacPherson]

Brian,

I get the impression that both symmetrical and asymmetrical configurations were used. They may be tailored differently. I would recommend sticking to the symmetrical thing until you have it nailed before getting sidetracked with the asymmetrical thing.

Mac

[Mart Shearer]

Indeed. I suspect Brian's three categories of attached coif construction might well be expanded to 5-6 types.

[P. Schontzler]

What material are you using for mail?

[Brian Robson]

[Robert MacPherson]

[Brian Robson]

I can't figure out how to post pictures here without uploading to the web first - so it seemed simpler just to create a new wiki page and link it here...

More pics - including a rough guid of how I would try to build it from scratch (If I'd know what I know now):

http://dawnofchivalry.wikispaces.com/Mail+Coif+-+Guide

[Robert MacPherson]

[Mart Shearer]

Here's another odd example to consider: Louvre Inv. No. RF4217, Recumbent statue fragment from the tomb of Jean de Seygnelay, Lord of Beaumont (d. about 1296) Around 1300. From: church of St. Marien (Auxerre).


Although there is damage, it appears the decorated strap runs beneath the mail, rather than through the (now missing) rings of the brow. Attached is a slightly more frontal view, and it seems there is also a remnant of the strap on the left side of the face as well.

[Randall Moffett]

Brian,

Is the faced flap loose on yours? If not how do you have it attached? It sort of looks like it is hooked together with the main coif on the chin but I cannot tell from the pictures of notes. Looks very nice and great shape.

RPM