Info Favorites Register Log in
myArmoury.com Discussion Forums

Forum index Memberlist Usergroups Spotlight Topics Search
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Hilt for felddegen, walloon or something similarDIY Project Reply to topic
This is a standard topic  
Author Message
Viktor Abrahamson




Location: Sweden
Joined: 07 Aug 2008
Likes: 2 pages

Posts: 74

PostPosted: Thu 21 Mar, 2013 4:34 am    Post subject: Hilt for felddegen, walloon or something similar         Reply with quote

Not sure about the terminology about these swords.
Its been discussed in this thread about Walloon swords: http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t...=felddegen

Im working on a hilt inspired from one I saw in another thread here at myArmoury.
The one a saw was this one:

From this thread: http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t...=felddegen

Anyway I fell in love with it and wanted something similar.
This is the current state of the hilt, which is slowly taking form.







obviously I have a long way to go before its finished. The grip, the pierced plates and making it all fit together.

The blade is one I got quite cheap, and Im not sure its the right kind.
But there seems tho be a lot of variety in blade design for these hilts, so maybe Im not that far of?

The blade on the original seems pretty hard to classify, maybe because it has been sharpened a lot?
Is it 4 or 6 faces, or just rounded? And what happened to the tip.

Does anyone know of a production sword which have an suitable (sharp) blade for this kind of hilt?

/Viktor
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Stephen Wheatley




Location: DORSET ENGLAND
Joined: 15 Nov 2008

Posts: 91

PostPosted: Thu 21 Mar, 2013 9:01 am    Post subject: WALLOON BLADE         Reply with quote

Nice work Viktor - I love the pierced plates on the Walloons and Swedish/Netherlands types from 'Sverige's Stormaktstid'. For a cheapish blede try the Hanwei sidesword (will need shortening as it has a ricasso) or better still their sharp mortuary sword blade. Failing that, billets of 5-6mm steel shouldn't be hard to come by in Sweden - I've made some nice swords from old farm circular saw blades - they're generally about 6mm thick and about four feet across. Timber yards and chain-saw repairs often have them lying about - my last one cost me 15 and was good for five or six swords. Good luck with the work and keep posting the pictures.
Stephen Wheatley
View user's profile Send private message
Roger Hooper




Location: Northern California
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Likes: 1 page

Spotlight topics: 4
Posts: 3,897

PostPosted: Thu 21 Mar, 2013 10:01 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

That is very nice work. I like the subtle lobes on the side and knuckleguards. Sometimes on these swords they can swell up as big as abacus beads. Good luck with the pierced plates - that will be a difficult task.

For a blade how about the Hanwei/Tinker bastard sword with fuller. It will be fairly close to many Felddegen blades. You can buy just the blade Here at Kult of Athena for a good price.
You can get one without a fuller, but most of these swords do have a narrow fuller that goes about halfway down the blade.
View user's profile Send private message
Viktor Abrahamson




Location: Sweden
Joined: 07 Aug 2008
Likes: 2 pages

Posts: 74

PostPosted: Mon 25 Mar, 2013 12:46 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thank you for your comments.

I have been looking for the sharp mortuary, but its not being made anymore and kind of hard to find.
It seems as if the Sidesword is discontinued as well?

The Tinker Bastard blade has never crossed my mind as suitable for these hilts. Have to find out more about it.

Yes the pierced plates is going to be challenging, and take a lot of patience.
Another concern is how to make the two end pieces on the wire bound grip. It seems to be two brass "cups" covering the ends of the grip. Not sure how to make them, but I will give it a try. If that failes maybe I could make two rings instead of cups. But then the problem is getting them to stay in place.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Stephen Wheatley




Location: DORSET ENGLAND
Joined: 15 Nov 2008

Posts: 91

PostPosted: Mon 25 Mar, 2013 1:57 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Brass plumbing fittings, provided they're old brass and not the new shiny type look great as hilt fittings - they come in 20 & 28mm widths. Failing that, there's a great tutorial on this site on Turk's Head knots; I've managed a few, they look great. How are you planning to attach the plates? Brazing and welding will be hard to clean up - brazing would be my option but I'd love to know how it was done in the past. Ihave used a sandwich of two thin guards rivetted to the plate which gives a neat join, obviously you can't do that as you've already made the hilt.
Stephen Wheatley
View user's profile Send private message
Viktor Abrahamson




Location: Sweden
Joined: 07 Aug 2008
Likes: 2 pages

Posts: 74

PostPosted: Mon 25 Mar, 2013 2:39 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I plan to braze the plates. I would guess thats how they originaly did it.
I want the upper fitting to be oval. So maybe the plumbing supplies won't fit.
I think I can make them with some practice.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Radovan Geist




Location: Slovakia
Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Likes: 5 pages

Posts: 358

PostPosted: Mon 25 Mar, 2013 3:41 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

On one of my projects Im trying to solve the same problem with attaching the guard-plate. Looking at original pieces (I can only recommend HH as a source: http://www.hermann-historica.de/gb/index_abgeschlossen_N.html), it seems that theyve usually used a slit running along the side-loop, with the plate sandwiched in it.
Some examples (use the "magnifying glass" function):
http://www.hermann-historica.de/auktion/hhm63...at63_b.txt
http://www.hermann-historica.de/auktion/hhm64...t64_AW.txt
http://www.hermann-historica.de/auktion/hhm65...at65_a.txt
you can see it nicely also here, where the plate is missing:
http://www.hermann-historica.de/auktion/hhm65...at65_a.txt

it is difficult to say whether the joint was reinforced by brazing, but its possible.
For myself, Im going to use this "slit" construction & tinning.
View user's profile Send private message
Viktor Abrahamson




Location: Sweden
Joined: 07 Aug 2008
Likes: 2 pages

Posts: 74

PostPosted: Mon 25 Mar, 2013 4:29 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thank you both, I very much appreciate the advices.
I did prepare a sort of shelf for the plates to rest on. Preventing them from falling through if they receive a hit.

But it didn't line up as well as I would have wanted, when i assembled the hilt. But I will try and repair the damage done before fitting the plates.

View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Roger Hooper




Location: Northern California
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Likes: 1 page

Spotlight topics: 4
Posts: 3,897

PostPosted: Mon 25 Mar, 2013 6:52 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

For dealing with the plates, you might want to contact Craig Johnson of Arms and Armor. They had to solve some of these problems when they made a Walloon for me.
View user's profile Send private message
Stephen Wheatley




Location: DORSET ENGLAND
Joined: 15 Nov 2008

Posts: 91

PostPosted: Thu 28 Mar, 2013 4:48 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Radovan, Viktor,

Hows it coming? I reckon the slit method would work well, they must have cut them before bending and welding the guards and then hammered in the plates to fit. A nightmare when you make the plates having to cut the shapes plus 3 - 4mm to allow for dishing. Good luck with them. Would love to see the photos.

Stephen Wheatley
View user's profile Send private message
Radovan Geist




Location: Slovakia
Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Likes: 5 pages

Posts: 358

PostPosted: Thu 28 Mar, 2013 6:26 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well yes. Im planning to try this method first on something smaller, with plate that is rather flat. Probably a parrying dagger, if I would find a relevant original piece as a model. I will post results, if there would be any Happy
View user's profile Send private message
Viktor Abrahamson




Location: Sweden
Joined: 07 Aug 2008
Likes: 2 pages

Posts: 74

PostPosted: Sun 31 Mar, 2013 12:10 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I have not had time to do any more work on the hilt. But I will next week.
I ordered Hanwei/Tinkers bastard blades both with and without fuller. Could not decide wich one I preferred. Since the original I first got inspired of don't have a fuller. And I'm planning another similar project.
Thank you for pointing me in that direction Roger.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Roger Hooper




Location: Northern California
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Likes: 1 page

Spotlight topics: 4
Posts: 3,897

PostPosted: Sun 31 Mar, 2013 1:07 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

For a clue on how to mount those plates, read what E. B. Erickson has to say on This Thread -- Peter Johnsson also puts forth some interesting information.
View user's profile Send private message
Stephen Wheatley




Location: DORSET ENGLAND
Joined: 15 Nov 2008

Posts: 91

PostPosted: Sun 31 Mar, 2013 2:17 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

That's a great link Roger - many thanks - I'd never have thought of hammering to expand the plates in! Great tip.
Stephen Wheatley
View user's profile Send private message
Viktor Abrahamson




Location: Sweden
Joined: 07 Aug 2008
Likes: 2 pages

Posts: 74

PostPosted: Fri 07 Feb, 2014 7:23 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well! Not much has happened on this project since last.
But I recently started looking in to it again. And I found this very nice norwegian museum page with a lot of swords tagged "schwedendegen".
Have a look at these: http://digitaltmuseum.no/search?query=schwedendegen&js=1'
Showing a lot of details, these for example. Showing two hilts missing one of the plates.



View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Sean Flynt
myArmoury Team


myArmoury Team

Location: Birmingham, Alabama
Joined: 21 Aug 2003
Likes: 10 pages
Reading list: 13 books

Spotlight topics: 7
Posts: 5,900

PostPosted: Fri 07 Feb, 2014 10:18 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

FWIW, I just got one of the H/T fullered bastard blades for a mid-16th c. field sword project, and I think it's a great way to go for some of these later hilts.
-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Viktor Abrahamson




Location: Sweden
Joined: 07 Aug 2008
Likes: 2 pages

Posts: 74

PostPosted: Mon 10 Feb, 2014 12:51 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Yes I got one of those, but feel it's a bit wide at the base. Maybe I could narrow it down a bit.
I also got the Basket hilted backsword thinking about using that blade.
Looking att the hilt-type it seems to be used with every kind of blade of the time.

So now I can't decide.

View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Viktor Abrahamson




Location: Sweden
Joined: 07 Aug 2008
Likes: 2 pages

Posts: 74

PostPosted: Mon 10 Feb, 2014 5:50 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Or maybe it's not to wide, this is the Hilt on the Tinker Bastard.



Sorry about the crappy picture.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website


Display posts from previous:   
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Hilt for felddegen, walloon or something similarDIY Project
Page 1 of 1 Reply to topic
All times are GMT - 8 Hours

View previous topic :: View next topic
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum






All contents © Copyright 2003-2018 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Basic Low-bandwidth Version of the forum