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Brian Robson





Joined: 19 Feb 2007

Posts: 185

PostPosted: Mon 26 Nov, 2012 7:37 am    Post subject: Looking for a name for this weapon         Reply with quote

This:

http://www.medievaltymes.com/courtyard/images...etail4.gif



What would you call it? An early Falchion?

(I'm asking because I bought a reproduction for re-enactment use and calling it a 'chopper' just doesn't seem right)
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Timo Nieminen




Location: Brisbane, Australia
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PostPosted: Mon 26 Nov, 2012 7:49 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

These are usually called a "Maciejowski Falchion" or "Maciejowski chopper". AFAIK, the Maciejowski Bible is the only source, with no physical examples.

"Mac falchion" is a good short working name.

"In addition to being efficient, all pole arms were quite nice to look at." - Cherney Berg, A hideous history of weapons, Collier 1963.
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Cornelis Tromp




Location: Holland
Joined: 03 Jan 2010

Posts: 83

PostPosted: Mon 26 Nov, 2012 8:05 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

the only one close enough, I know off ,is this one , it has been auctioned by Czerny's

best,



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Bartek Strojek




Location: Poland
Joined: 05 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Mon 26 Nov, 2012 10:00 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Timo Nieminen wrote:
These are usually called a "Maciejowski Falchion" or "Maciejowski chopper". AFAIK, the Maciejowski Bible is the only source, with no physical examples.



Something more or less similar appears in pictorial sources from time to time, but there's indeed no actual find, AFAIR.

http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=927


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Brad F.





Joined: 07 Jun 2012

Posts: 10

PostPosted: Mon 26 Nov, 2012 11:35 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I can't help but wonder if that's some sort of agriculture tool-something like a billhook, or an early machete.
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Doug Lester




Location: Decatur, IL
Joined: 12 Dec 2007

Posts: 167

PostPosted: Mon 26 Nov, 2012 11:52 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I remember a picture of a statue of a knight carrying something like that. I don't know when the statue was made or if it was meant to be representative of a contemporary knight or an interpretation of a knight from an earlier time. However, artists usually didn't make things up totally of whole cloth.
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Mart Shearer




Location: Jackson, MS, USA
Joined: 18 Aug 2012

Posts: 1,276

PostPosted: Mon 26 Nov, 2012 1:24 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nicolle lists an unknown weapon of this time being listed as a fausart or fauchard. There are other manuscript examples, and the cusping is not unusual on 13th century table knives.



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ferrum ferro acuitur et homo exacuit faciem amici sui
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Dan Howard




Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia
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PostPosted: Mon 26 Nov, 2012 2:03 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Looks agricultural to me. For example, suger cane cutters use the same blade.
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Josh Wilson




Location: WV
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PostPosted: Mon 26 Nov, 2012 2:21 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Museum Replicas had a Maciejoskie line several years back. They made one of these and one of the big butter knife looking swords, and a couple of other weapons from the Bible. I don't know if anyone would have any of them in stock anywhere or not, if you were interested in owning one like it...
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Tjarand Matre




Location: Nøtterøy, Norway
Joined: 19 Sep 2010

Posts: 158

PostPosted: Mon 26 Nov, 2012 2:33 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Del Tin has made a few of these. Kult of Athena used to sell them at least.
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Matt Corbin




Location: U.S.A.
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PostPosted: Mon 26 Nov, 2012 5:34 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

KoA has a few of the Del Tin versions in stock.



http://kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=DT5134



http://kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=DT5133

“This was the age of heroes, some legendary, some historical . . . the misty borderland of history where fact and legend mingle.”
- R. Ewart Oakeshott
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Brian Robson





Joined: 19 Feb 2007

Posts: 185

PostPosted: Tue 27 Nov, 2012 4:50 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I bought it from this guy:

http://www.berbekuczviktor.hu/angol/angol.html (under Gothic Swords --- Series) - seems I can't provide a direct link.

I'm not sure about them being agricultural as I noticed a 'feature' which seems to be too co-incidental not to have been designed.. When messing around with it and bearing in mind the discussions here on hammer vs handshake grip, it seems that using a handshake grip on the handle where the curve starts lets you angle the weapon downwards slightly from the angle of your arm (when doing a downward strike). As well as being handy to 'angle' around a shield, it had the effect of making the weapon contact it's target right on the point protruding from the blade-side. It was also ankled perfectly so that the point struck the target with all of the weight from the large mass of steel behind it going directly through that point.
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Jack Savante





Joined: 01 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: Thu 29 Nov, 2012 5:40 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I've read of weapons of this ilk translated into English as "Cleaver" and the name has always resonated with me as appropriate.
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Jack Savante





Joined: 01 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: Thu 29 Nov, 2012 5:46 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Also I've always thought this weapon was an interesting halfway point between the Maciejowski Cleavers and cruciform hilted falchions, sort of a missing link. Maybe their origin was agricultural but with modification their use in warfare became apparent?

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Randall Moffett




Location: Northern Utah
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PostPosted: Thu 29 Nov, 2012 6:20 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Dan,

Even if it started in agriculture many of these items became full fledged weapons of war, flails, bills, axes, etc. I think the ones that have the many extra cutting facets and spikes are far to elaborate for agricultural work.

Timo,

It is not the only one by a long shot, these show up all over Europe.

Here is one from Finland in 1380.
top left and top right.

RPM



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