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Brian Robson
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Posted: Mon 26 Nov, 2012 7:37 am Post subject: Looking for a name for this weapon |
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This:
http://www.medievaltymes.com/courtyard/images...etail4.gif
What would you call it? An early Falchion?
(I'm asking because I bought a reproduction for re-enactment use and calling it a 'chopper' just doesn't seem right)
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Timo Nieminen
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Posted: Mon 26 Nov, 2012 7:49 am Post subject: |
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These are usually called a "Maciejowski Falchion" or "Maciejowski chopper". AFAIK, the Maciejowski Bible is the only source, with no physical examples.
"Mac falchion" is a good short working name.
"In addition to being efficient, all pole arms were quite nice to look at." - Cherney Berg, A hideous history of weapons, Collier 1963.
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Cornelis Tromp
Location: Holland Joined: 03 Jan 2010
Posts: 87
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Posted: Mon 26 Nov, 2012 8:05 am Post subject: |
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the only one close enough, I know off ,is this one , it has been auctioned by Czerny's
best,
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Bartek Strojek
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Posted: Mon 26 Nov, 2012 10:00 am Post subject: |
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Timo Nieminen wrote: | These are usually called a "Maciejowski Falchion" or "Maciejowski chopper". AFAIK, the Maciejowski Bible is the only source, with no physical examples.
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Something more or less similar appears in pictorial sources from time to time, but there's indeed no actual find, AFAIR.
http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=927
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Brad F.
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Posted: Mon 26 Nov, 2012 11:35 am Post subject: |
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I can't help but wonder if that's some sort of agriculture tool-something like a billhook, or an early machete.
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Doug Lester
Location: Decatur, IL Joined: 12 Dec 2007
Posts: 167
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Posted: Mon 26 Nov, 2012 11:52 am Post subject: |
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I remember a picture of a statue of a knight carrying something like that. I don't know when the statue was made or if it was meant to be representative of a contemporary knight or an interpretation of a knight from an earlier time. However, artists usually didn't make things up totally of whole cloth.
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Mart Shearer
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Posted: Mon 26 Nov, 2012 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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Nicolle lists an unknown weapon of this time being listed as a fausart or fauchard. There are other manuscript examples, and the cusping is not unusual on 13th century table knives.
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ferrum ferro acuitur et homo exacuit faciem amici sui
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Dan Howard
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Posted: Mon 26 Nov, 2012 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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Looks agricultural to me. For example, suger cane cutters use the same blade.
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Josh Wilson
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Posted: Mon 26 Nov, 2012 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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Museum Replicas had a Maciejoskie line several years back. They made one of these and one of the big butter knife looking swords, and a couple of other weapons from the Bible. I don't know if anyone would have any of them in stock anywhere or not, if you were interested in owning one like it...
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Tjarand Matre
Location: Nøtterøy, Norway Joined: 19 Sep 2010
Posts: 159
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Posted: Mon 26 Nov, 2012 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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Del Tin has made a few of these. Kult of Athena used to sell them at least.
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Matt Corbin
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Brian Robson
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Posted: Tue 27 Nov, 2012 4:50 am Post subject: |
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I bought it from this guy:
http://www.berbekuczviktor.hu/angol/angol.html (under Gothic Swords --- Series) - seems I can't provide a direct link.
I'm not sure about them being agricultural as I noticed a 'feature' which seems to be too co-incidental not to have been designed.. When messing around with it and bearing in mind the discussions here on hammer vs handshake grip, it seems that using a handshake grip on the handle where the curve starts lets you angle the weapon downwards slightly from the angle of your arm (when doing a downward strike). As well as being handy to 'angle' around a shield, it had the effect of making the weapon contact it's target right on the point protruding from the blade-side. It was also ankled perfectly so that the point struck the target with all of the weight from the large mass of steel behind it going directly through that point.
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Jack Savante
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Posted: Thu 29 Nov, 2012 5:40 am Post subject: |
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I've read of weapons of this ilk translated into English as "Cleaver" and the name has always resonated with me as appropriate.
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Jack Savante
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Posted: Thu 29 Nov, 2012 5:46 am Post subject: |
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Also I've always thought this weapon was an interesting halfway point between the Maciejowski Cleavers and cruciform hilted falchions, sort of a missing link. Maybe their origin was agricultural but with modification their use in warfare became apparent?
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Randall Moffett
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Posted: Thu 29 Nov, 2012 6:20 am Post subject: |
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Dan,
Even if it started in agriculture many of these items became full fledged weapons of war, flails, bills, axes, etc. I think the ones that have the many extra cutting facets and spikes are far to elaborate for agricultural work.
Timo,
It is not the only one by a long shot, these show up all over Europe.
Here is one from Finland in 1380.
top left and top right.
RPM
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