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Martin Wallgren




Location: Bjästa, Sweden
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PostPosted: Tue 30 Oct, 2012 3:14 pm    Post subject: Weird Segmentata armour (split from Javelins with fletching)         Reply with quote

I was linked to this french forum by a friend... http://mediaephile.com/forum/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1219063763 ... where I found the images.


obj 00074028,T:
Frankreich, Des cas des nobles hommes et femmes, 1458, Handschrift, München, Bayerische Staatsbibliothek.
Fouquet, Jean, Buchausstattung.
Antiochus III., König von Syrien, Miniatur (in der Kolumne)
Inventar-Nr. Cod. gall. 6

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Luka Borscak




Location: Croatia
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PostPosted: Tue 30 Oct, 2012 3:40 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I think my brain will force me to have a replica of this. if only there was a surviving example of this... Any idea how this would be constructed?
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Randall Moffett




Location: Northern Utah
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PostPosted: Tue 30 Oct, 2012 4:02 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I think he is one of PJs elves.....

Maybe it is textile armour? I cannot imagine it'd work very well over other armour of this time.

RPM
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Nat Lamb




Location: Melbourne, Australia
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PostPosted: Tue 30 Oct, 2012 4:57 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Very reminiscent of the Elve's armour in LotR, particularly the ones with the "nagamaki" like polearm/swords in the battle scene at the start
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William P




Location: Sydney, Australia
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PostPosted: Wed 31 Oct, 2012 12:55 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well in the movie, that armour was done in one piece, It might be worth considering that because it looks segmented doesnt neccesarily mean the plates slip and slide etc. It might be just a funny way of presenting a more rigid piece of armour.

If it does move, I am willing to bet the plates are mostely attatched to each other in the middle, when you bend, the plates can slide freely and are probab;y partly attatched to each other by leathers not unlike the negmentata.
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Jeffrey Hildebrandt
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PostPosted: Wed 31 Oct, 2012 6:41 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Considering that the image depicts Antiochus III, the King of Syria, I think that there is a distinct possibility that some of the armour depicted is fanciful, even if the majority of it was contemporary. Note the style of spaulders that the king is wearing - it is a conventional depiction of antique armour, used on ancients, angels, etc. It is also possible that the segmented armour was actually intended to depict a Roman lorica segmentata, considering that Antiochus was defeated by Rome in 192 BC.
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Matthew Amt




Location: Laurel, MD, USA
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PostPosted: Wed 31 Oct, 2012 9:44 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jeffrey Hildebrandt wrote:
Considering that the image depicts Antiochus III, the King of Syria, I think that there is a distinct possibility that some of the armour depicted is fanciful, even if the majority of it was contemporary. Note the style of spaulders that the king is wearing - it is a conventional depiction of antique armour, used on ancients, angels, etc. It is also possible that the segmented armour was actually intended to depict a Roman lorica segmentata, considering that Antiochus was defeated by Rome in 192 BC.


Bingo. It's a deliberate "archaism" to represent a soldier from ancient times. The king looks a little neo-Classical as well.

Matthew
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Mart Shearer




Location: Jackson, MS, USA
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PostPosted: Sun 11 Nov, 2012 7:28 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Found these "History of Rome" examples on manuscriptminiatures.com which seen to support a textile armor.
http://manuscriptminiatures.com/search/?manus...ne-71-a-17



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Mart Shearer




Location: Jackson, MS, USA
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PostPosted: Sun 02 Dec, 2012 10:13 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Another contemporary model:
http://manuscriptminiatures.com/des-cas-des-n...1901/3073/

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Johan Gemvik




Location: Stockholm, Sweden
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PostPosted: Mon 03 Dec, 2012 9:39 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Could this be lmprovised armour from rolled cloth? If you had cloth but no time or skilled tailor around to make a proper jack from it?
"The Dwarf sees farther than the Giant when he has the giant's shoulder to mount on" -Coleridge
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Luka Borscak




Location: Croatia
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PostPosted: Mon 03 Dec, 2012 12:19 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Could be. But all these examples look very different to me than the first one that started the thread and looks too precise geometrically to be textile armor.
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Michael Ekelmann




Location: Seattle Metro Area, USA
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PostPosted: Sat 08 Dec, 2012 1:21 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Matthew Amt wrote:
Jeffrey Hildebrandt wrote:
Considering that the image depicts Antiochus III, the King of Syria, I think that there is a distinct possibility that some of the armour depicted is fanciful, even if the majority of it was contemporary. Note the style of spaulders that the king is wearing - it is a conventional depiction of antique armour, used on ancients, angels, etc. It is also possible that the segmented armour was actually intended to depict a Roman lorica segmentata, considering that Antiochus was defeated by Rome in 192 BC.


Bingo. It's a deliberate "archaism" to represent a soldier from ancient times. The king looks a little neo-Classical as well.

Matthew


Another vote for deliberate classicism. Given that the subjects illustrated are all from classical antiquity, I would say the artist is attempting to depict a lorica segmenta from descriptions he's read in surviving copies of classical texts or maybe was just told "In the old days they wore armour made of bands, draw something like that."

It's like a historian 600 years in the future trying to reconstruct French 17th century military uniforms and equipment from an illustrated Alexandre Dumas book published in the 1950s.

That isn't to say that I would frown on a reconstruction of the armour depicted in the manuscript. I'm pretty keen on making a kit modeled after some of the 14th cent Italian paintings/frescoes of antiquity. A coat of plates that looks like a linothorax or spolas? How cool is that!

“Men prefer to fight with swords, so they can see each other's eyes!" Sean Connery as Mulay Hamid El Raisuli in The Wind and the Lion
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