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Mark Hamilton





Joined: 23 Jul 2009

Posts: 21

PostPosted: Wed 03 Oct, 2012 4:06 am    Post subject: Period manuals         Reply with quote

Hi,

I've seen a few earlier manuals for longsword use, and some later stuff for thrusting rapier styles (eg Agrippa) but I was wondering what, if anything is available that covers the cut and thrust styles that would be right for the 1400's.

Can anyone point me in the right direction?

Many thanks,
MH
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Christopher Treichel




Location: Metro D.C.
Joined: 14 Jan 2010

Posts: 268

PostPosted: Wed 03 Oct, 2012 7:17 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Fiore de Liberi was written at the end of the 14th century into early 15th century ~1350-1400.

Do you have a specific decade or location in mind?
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Mark Hamilton





Joined: 23 Jul 2009

Posts: 21

PostPosted: Wed 03 Oct, 2012 8:09 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hey ,

thanks for the reply. I will have a look at that text, if I can find it!

While I don't have a specific decade in mind, Northern Italy in the 15th century is what I am researching, and the styles of combat that would be used with A&A's Serrenisima or Albion's Machiavelli.

I think 'spada da lato' is the correct term for them, but its the broader bladed cut and thrust swords that were used before, and that later developed into the complex hilted thrust oriented swords are that I'm looking for.

thanks again,

MH
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Luke Kramer




Location: Wisconsin
Joined: 10 Dec 2011
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PostPosted: Wed 03 Oct, 2012 8:55 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Philippo di Vadi lived towards the end of the 15th century, he might be a good place to look as well. Here's his bio on Wiktenauer.
Castlerock Museum School and Group Coordinator
Wisconsin Historical Fencing Association (WHFA)
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Sean Flynt
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Location: Birmingham, Alabama
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PostPosted: Wed 03 Oct, 2012 9:08 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Many sword instructions should apply to across a broad chronological and cultural field

Royal Armouries MS I:33 is widely available, especially for sword & buckler.
Silver's Paradoxes.

Paul Hand has covered both extensively in recent books.

-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Gottfried P. Doerler




Location: Tyrol, Austria
Joined: 11 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Wed 03 Oct, 2012 10:54 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

if its spada da lato you search for i think Achille Marozzo (Opera Nova, 1536) would be your man.
its maybe some 50 years later than what you have in thought, but as far as i know Vadi and Liberi deal with longsword only (is this correct ?).
and i think his opera is also available as pdf online, i hope i can recall the link.

edit: found the link
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Mackenzie Cosens




Location: Vancouver Canada
Joined: 08 Aug 2007

Posts: 238

PostPosted: Wed 03 Oct, 2012 5:45 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

As already mentioned:
note: freelanceacademypress.com has a number of good books on Italian sword.

I33
http://wiktenauer.com/wiki/Walpurgis_Fechtbuch_%28MS_I.33%29

Fiore de Liberi:
http://wiktenauer.com/wiki/Fiore_de%27i_Liberi
http://www.freelanceacademypress.com/FiorDiBattaglia.aspx
http://www.freelanceacademypress.com/armizare.aspx
Dardi / Bolognese tradition: Marozo, Manciolino ect
http://wiktenauer.com/wiki/Filippo_di_Bartolomeo_Dardi
http://www.freelanceacademypress.com/complete...dsman.aspx

Its interesting to note that both Filippo di Bartolomeo Dardi and Fiore de'i Liberi lived about the same time.

Fiore has sections on sword in one hand and in two hands as well as wrestling, dagger, spear, axe. Combat in armour and without ; on horse or on foot.

Personally I think both A&A's Serrenisima & Albion's Machiavelli would work fine with any of the 3 traditions listed although esthetically I would lean to the Bolognese with these two weapons.

Wikenauer has a ton of manuals http://wiktenauer.com/wiki/Main_Page
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Christopher Treichel




Location: Metro D.C.
Joined: 14 Jan 2010

Posts: 268

PostPosted: Wed 03 Oct, 2012 7:43 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

hmmm...

try this: http://www.fioredeiliberi.org/phpBB3/viewforum.php?f=25
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Mark Hamilton





Joined: 23 Jul 2009

Posts: 21

PostPosted: Thu 04 Oct, 2012 2:46 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for the replies!

As always, when I post on this forum, I'm blown away by how generous people are with their time to provide information! I really appreciate all the help!

Many thanks!
MH
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