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Martinho Ramos




Location: Portugal
Joined: 05 Jan 2011

Posts: 16

PostPosted: Mon 25 Jun, 2012 7:35 am    Post subject: Help identifying a Bayonet         Reply with quote

Recently a particularly interesting item has come to fall under my possession, and since i am completely ignorant when it comes to 20th century arms i thought someone here would be able to identify a place of origin, maybe date of production of this particular model of bayonet. The pommel has an opening at it's base and a grove running along it's back, for what i believe was the means by which the whole weapon was secured to the firearm it was designed to.

The blade has two inscriptions, which i believe will not be visible in the pictures so i'll transcribe them. The most noticeable one is at the base of the blade in it's left side (when held with the cutting edge facing forward) and it reads "C.G. HAENEL SUHL", and the second one is almost unreadable and is engraved along the start of the "spine" of the blade, right near the guard.

Measurements:

Overall: 49.5 cm long;
Blade: 36.5 cm long / 6 mm thick / 2.6 cm wide near the guard / 3.2 cm wide near the tip at the blade's widest spot;
Handle: 12.5 cm long
Weight: 520 g;
Point of balance: about 6 cm from the guard.














Thanks in advance!
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Gottfried P. Doerler




Location: Tyrol, Austria
Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Likes: 4 pages

Posts: 228

PostPosted: Mon 25 Jun, 2012 9:53 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

i dont know what type of bayonnet this is (probably every nation of the world had some bayonnet in the first half of the 20th cent.),
but what i found interesting is, that the upper part of the crossguard does not form a ring to fit round the barrel.
i wonder if the upper half of this semi-cirlce has broken away or if this is intended so. if intended, would this provide enough stability to the fixing of the blade ??
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Jeroen Averhals




Location: Flanders, Belgium
Joined: 16 Feb 2007
Reading list: 2 books

Posts: 66

PostPosted: Mon 25 Jun, 2012 10:00 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It seems to be a german bayonet:

http://www.bayonetsonline.com/images/111_%20273.JPG
1st pattern with high ears and no flashguard, made by Haenel and dated 1915 for Bavaria. Wood grips has chip missing on right side with patina on the handle. No regimental markings. Blade has light staining and no sharpening. Metal scabbard with some dents and crease near tip. Scarce Bavarian maker.

Jeroen

Vigor et Veritas
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Christopher Finneman




Location: Sartell Minnesota
Joined: 20 Mar 2006

Posts: 159

PostPosted: Mon 25 Jun, 2012 12:19 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Its a old german bayonet I have the same one well style.
Theres this one and one that was made with a saw back called a butcher bayonet.

Proudly it stands until the worlds end. The victorious banner of love.
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Ozsváth Árpád-István




Location: Romania
Joined: 27 Apr 2008

Posts: 131

PostPosted: Mon 25 Jun, 2012 8:20 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Yes, it's a german bayonet and it's called "Seitengewehr 98/05 alter Art, ohne Säge". You can find out more from the markings on the spine, the year of fabrication and the royal cypher of the monarch:
http://worldbayonets.com/Misc__Pages/Imperial...yphers.pdf
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Chuck Russell




Location: WV
Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Reading list: 46 books

Posts: 936

PostPosted: Tue 26 Jun, 2012 4:35 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

is that the one that goes on the g98 ?
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Martinho Ramos




Location: Portugal
Joined: 05 Jan 2011

Posts: 16

PostPosted: Tue 26 Jun, 2012 5:17 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ozsváth Árpád-István wrote:
Yes, it's a german bayonet and it's called "Seitengewehr 98/05 alter Art, ohne Säge". You can find out more from the markings on the spine, the year of fabrication and the royal cypher of the monarch:
http://worldbayonets.com/Misc__Pages/Imperial...yphers.pdf


That cypher list is really interesting! I am quite sure that the cypher present in the spine of mine has the crown symbol above a "W" and what appears to be either an "L" or a number "10". I will try to upload a picture showing this inscription. Under those three characters are another two that i really can't read.

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Ozsváth Árpád-István




Location: Romania
Joined: 27 Apr 2008

Posts: 131

PostPosted: Tue 26 Jun, 2012 8:26 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It goes on the Gewehr 98 replacing the long and heavy 98/02 used by the pioneer troops. Another famous bayonet, the S98 was the counterpart of the french Lebel, but it prooved to be too fragile and in many cases was also replaced by the 98/05.

Martinho, maybe the W means Wilhelm the second of Prusia, and the number below should be the year of fabrication (19)10?

The Maker is C.G. Haenel Waffen und Fahrradfabrik A.G., Suhl - and if I'm not mistaken in those time Suhl was annexed to Prussia.

It's a nice piece, keep good care of it!
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