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Scott Woodruff





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PostPosted: Tue 05 Jun, 2012 11:08 am    Post subject: Scent-stoppers on single-hand swords         Reply with quote

I am looking for examples of scent-stopper pommels on single-hand swords ( or borderline hand-and-a-halfs with relatively short grips.) Any help would be appreciated. I have a blade and cross-guard that I would like to put a scent-stopper on, but I cut the tang shorter than I should have, and as the vast majority of scent-stoppers I have seen have been on long-gripped swords I would really like to see a short-grip with a scent-stopper to give some historical plausibility to the project before I finish it. If I can not find any, I will have to fall back on a sherical pommel.
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Tue 05 Jun, 2012 11:22 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

You could always create some tang out of the top of the blade.
-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Tue 05 Jun, 2012 11:26 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

What particular pommel form do you have in mind, and for what period?
-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Scott Woodruff





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PostPosted: Tue 05 Jun, 2012 3:10 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The blade is only about 70cm long, so already at the minimum for my own preferences. I am now considering welding a tang extension on. If I do go with the single-hander, I want to do something similar to Museumsnummer T5273 at the Vitensmuseet Norway (http://www.unimus.no/foto/#/I=46334VM) This sword has a fairly short, tapered blade with a long, broad fuller, a wide curved guard with back-curled ends and a spherical pommel. Basically it is like one of the main types of long-gripped Scandinavian longsword but with a short grip. Some of the long-gripped version with similar guard have scent-stopper pommels of the flat-faceted type as opposed to those such as one sees on Albion's Dane. I would prefer to do the scent-stopper over the spherical because the spherical would have to be much more hollow to have both the appropriate volume and mass. If I do manage to weld on a reasonably strong tang extension, then of course my pommel would have to be much lighter still. The blade as it is only weighs 600g and has pretty strong distal and profile taper, so either way it will need a fairly light pommel in comparison to other swords of similar grip length. I hope that was coherent enough, I just got in from the New Mexico heat and my brain is probably running at about 102 degrees Wink
PS- I do not know the dating of T5273, but it shares characteristics with Scandinavian longswords of the latter half of the 15th and beginning of the 16th.


Last edited by Scott Woodruff on Tue 05 Jun, 2012 3:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Scott Woodruff





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PostPosted: Tue 05 Jun, 2012 3:20 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

http://www.flickr.com/photos/ainarm/4772947822/in/photostream/ The second from the right is what it will look like if I can extend the grip, 70-80 cm blade with long fuller, curved guard with back-curled ends and flat-faceted scent stopper pommel. The grip is about 40cm long.http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=18698&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0 -a link to your thread that initially ignited my passion for late 15th-early 16th century Scandinavian swords. ( I don't know why link does not work)
PS- Incidentally, this blade is the same one I promised pics of on your thread all those aeons ago. It has gone through several major transformations and is scarcely recognizable as a Hanwei Mercenary. I have 3 Scandi-swords in progress right now, including an Albion XVI bare blade with apple-shaped pommel and C-shaped guard, and a partially forged XVIIIe blade about 105-110cm long, 1.4 m overall. I am terrible about taking and posting pics, but eventually I intend to contribute some significant additions to your "Help with N. European sword" thread.
PPS- I also hilted a type X with Elk-antler cross and pommel inspired by the organic hilt components shown in your "Help with N. European sword" thread.
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Michael Parker




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PostPosted: Tue 05 Jun, 2012 3:58 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Wow, the Nationalmuseet had an eye-popping collection! Eek! I am totally bookmarking this photostream.
"This is a sharp medicine, but it is a physician for all diseases and miseries."
-Sir Walter Raleigh, upon being allowed to see the ax that would behead him, 29 October 1618
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Scott Woodruff





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PostPosted: Tue 05 Jun, 2012 4:02 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

No kidding! I think that 8 out of 10 of my favorite swords of all time are hanging on that one wall. If I could choose only one place in all the world to go, guess where it would be.http://www.albrechts.se/forum/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=179http://www.unimus.no/foto/#/P=search/S=sverd http://militum-xristi.flybb.ru/topic942.html- apparently these are from Poland, but most are identical to swords found in Scandinavia.
Edit: dang, my links are not working. These show some more goodies of a similar sort. Especially check out the Universitmuseenes fotoportal, mostly Viking-age, but there is some truly mind-blowing stuff there.
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Wed 06 Jun, 2012 7:19 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'm actually seeing more single hand swords with approximately with roughly this type of pommel than with the mandarin type. The period you're looking for is ~1400-1450, and not just Scandinavia. The faceted scentstopper pommels seem to be very popular in the German-speaking lands, but more typically in hand-and-a-half form.


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-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Wed 06 Jun, 2012 7:34 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

All first half of the 15th. c.:


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-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Scott Woodruff





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PostPosted: Wed 06 Jun, 2012 12:24 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thank you so much Sean. Are the photos from Middeladerens Tvaeggede Svaerd by Dr. Ada Bruhn-Hoffmeyer? I have lately been thinking that I would kill to have her book or even just some pics from it. Also, the period art you posted is great, with all the swords sporting guard leathers too, just what I was looking for. My plan is to try my hand at guilding the cross and pommel and having a bright red grip and guard leather, perhaps with some guilded decoration on the leather as well.
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Robert Hinds




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PostPosted: Wed 06 Jun, 2012 3:28 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Scott Woodruff wrote:
My plan is to try my hand at guilding the cross and pommel and having a bright red grip and guard leather, perhaps with some guilded decoration on the leather as well.


I literally started drooling as I read that. It sounds like it will look amazing. you definitely need to post pics of it when its finished. Good luck on your project! Happy

"Young knight, learn to love God and revere women; thus your honor will grow. Practice knighthood and learn the Art that dignifies you, and brings you honor in wars." -Johannes Liechtenauer

"...And he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one..." Luke 22:36
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Roger Hooper




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PostPosted: Wed 06 Jun, 2012 5:00 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here is a photo of a sword from around 1400 or maybe a little earlier. Del Tin used it as a model for their DT5144


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DT5144
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Scott Woodruff





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PostPosted: Wed 06 Jun, 2012 6:18 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Roger, thank you, I really should have remembered that one.
Robert, I certainly hope it turns out the way I envision it. I think we really need some more gaudy replicas to balance out all of the really plain, understated ones that appeal so much to modern sensibilities. This will be my first time working with gold. I may even try cutting some grooves and doing a few simple inlaid lines in silver to accent the gold. I have a few other swords that will be getting guard-leathers, so hopefully I will know what I am doing by the time I get to this one. I have not really worked out the particulars when it comes to the superficial decoration, so any suggestions woud be welcome. I was thinking maybe a leaf-shaped guard-leather like that of Albions Svante, with the "veins" done in gold.
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Robert Hinds




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PostPosted: Wed 06 Jun, 2012 8:20 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

[quote="Scott Woodruff,]
Robert, I certainly hope it turns out the way I envision it. I think we really need some more gaudy replicas to balance out all of the really plain, understated ones that appeal so much to modern sensibilities.[/quote]

I agree. It seems like there must be a hundred black gripped swords for every one with a red, green or blue grip. Not that I have anything against black grips mind you, but like you say there needs to be more gaudy goodness in sword repro's.

[/quote]
This will be my first time working with gold. I may even try cutting some grooves and doing a few simple inlaid lines in silver to accent the gold. I have a few other swords that will be getting guard-leathers, so hopefully I will know what I am doing by the time I get to this one. I have not really worked out the particulars when it comes to the superficial decoration, so any suggestions woud be welcome. I was thinking maybe a leaf-shaped guard-leather like that of Albions Svante, with the "veins" done in gold.[/quote]

The inlaid silver lines and the gold "veins" on the guard leather sound awesome. I wonder if anyone in period ever had their coat of arms put in gold on the guard leather? That seems like it would be very difficult and tedious to do though...

"Young knight, learn to love God and revere women; thus your honor will grow. Practice knighthood and learn the Art that dignifies you, and brings you honor in wars." -Johannes Liechtenauer

"...And he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one..." Luke 22:36
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Roger Hooper




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PostPosted: Thu 07 Jun, 2012 9:01 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here is another original with a scent stopper pommel that I found on the Arma Bohemia site. I don't know it's provenance.


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Michael Harley




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PostPosted: Sun 10 Jun, 2012 12:02 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

And of course, the sword of Estorre Visconti ca.1380-1410


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Bartek Strojek




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PostPosted: Sun 10 Jun, 2012 2:04 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Scott Woodruff wrote:
No kidding! I think that 8 out of 10 of my favorite swords of all time are hanging on that one wall. If I could choose only one place in all the world to go, guess where it would be.http://www.albrechts.se/forum/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=179http://www.unimus.no/foto/#/P=search/S=sverd http://militum-xristi.flybb.ru/topic942.html- apparently these are from Poland, but most are identical to swords found in Scandinavia.
Edit: dang, my links are not working. These show some more goodies of a similar sort. Especially check out the Universitmuseenes fotoportal, mostly Viking-age, but there is some truly mind-blowing stuff there.



Your link just needs removing "-" from it, like that:

http://militum-xristi.flybb.ru/topic942.html

Great stuff, too bad that pictures with catalogs aren't bigger, like that it's hard to read them...
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Scott Woodruff





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PostPosted: Mon 11 Jun, 2012 7:52 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thank you Bartek. It would be great if you could translate whatever you can make out on the catalog. I can just make out enough to read the dimensions and figure out what part the numbers refer to.

I alopogize to everyone for the "fuzzyness" of this thread, I often can not resist the tendency to wander off-topic.
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Bartek Strojek




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PostPosted: Mon 11 Jun, 2012 1:53 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ok, one at the time, cause it's very interesting, but makes eyes sore, even with magnification Big Grin

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_De2rVj3mBZ0/TQ4UiIJ7ueI...K7kM/7.jpg

Region : Central Europe
Dating : End of the XIII - Beginning of the XIV century.

Length: overall 112 cm (some part of the tip apparently broken away)
Blade as preserved 89.5cm
Handle 20.5 cm
Weight : 1,66 kg

Handle wrapped with iron wire.
Some stamps on pommel and guard knobs.
Some letters on blade.
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Michael Harley




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PostPosted: Fri 15 Jun, 2012 10:49 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

or this one, late 15th. to early 16th. century.


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