Info Favorites Register Log in
myArmoury.com Discussion Forums

Forum index Memberlist Usergroups Spotlight Topics Search
Forum Index > Off-topic Talk > More on Tinker Sword Reply to topic
This is a standard topic Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next 
Author Message
Harry J. Fletcher




Location: Lost in Texas
Joined: 19 Aug 2009
Likes: 9 pages
Reading list: 44 books

Posts: 260

PostPosted: Tue 13 Dec, 2011 5:17 pm    Post subject: More on Tinker Sword         Reply with quote

Reported post
For those of you unfamiliar with the situation, I ordered a custom sword from Tinker Pearce which was unsatisfactory to me and did not meet agreed upon specifications. I sent the sword back to Tinker and posted my experience in dealing with him here on myArmoury. Tinker replied in his own defense and said he would sell the sword and refund the money to me which was $1450.00. Although this was unilaterally done by Mr. Pearce I remained silent on the issue. The sword had been returned to him in the first week of February 2011 the same day I had received it and spoke with him by phone when I told him of my dissatisfaction. He stated he could not refund my money because he had paid his mortgage with it.

I heard nothing from Mr. Pearce about the refund or the sword and tried to contact him by email around the end of April or the first part of May 2011 but had no reply. I contacted one of the credit card companies involved in the transaction and received an OK for a charge back and only then did I hear from Mr. Pearce. The credit card company advised me to proceed with the charge back which I did. I received a $700.00 credit on my card. Mr. Pearce then sent me a scathing email stating he did not want to hear from me ever again. Presently, he has a $750.00 outstanding amount owed to me and still has the sword in his possession. Every item posted for sale on his website has sold with the exception of the sword he made for me. It has been ten months now and Mr. Pearce has not responded to repeated telephone calls or email.

I am making an open appeal to Mr. Pearce to settle this situation and as he says "...go our separate ways..."

To Study The Edge of History
View user's profile Send private message
Torsten F.H. Wilke




Location: Irvine Spectrum, CA
Joined: 01 Jul 2006

Posts: 250

PostPosted: Tue 13 Dec, 2011 6:10 pm    Post subject: Re: More on Tinker Sword         Reply with quote

Harry J. Fletcher wrote:
For those of you unfamiliar with the situation, I ordered a custom sword from Tinker Pearce which was unsatisfactory to me and did not meet agreed upon specifications. I sent the sword back to Tinker and posted my experience in dealing with him here on myArmoury. Tinker replied in his own defense and said he would sell the sword and refund the money to me which was $1450.00. Although this was unilaterally done by Mr. Pearce I remained silent on the issue. The sword had been returned to him in the first week of February 2011 the same day I had received it and spoke with him by phone when I told him of my dissatisfaction. ...Presently, he has a $750.00 outstanding amount owed to me and still has the sword in his possession.

I am making an open appeal to Mr. Pearce to settle this situation and, "go our separate ways..."


I am making an open appeal for you to just go away, like in the Motley Crue song of the same name.

You commissioned a custom sword from a decently reputable sword maker based upon one designed by him that you already owned and liked, and promptly returned it. Would you please just keep your private issues private, they are starting to annoy my quality of life here on these forums...

Regards irritably, Torsten



(Edited for additional pertinent content)


Last edited by Torsten F.H. Wilke on Wed 14 Dec, 2011 9:26 am; edited 1 time in total
View user's profile Send private message
Adam Bohnstengel




Location: Spring, TX
Joined: 24 Aug 2011

Posts: 72

PostPosted: Tue 13 Dec, 2011 6:15 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

In what way did the sword not meet your specifications? Was it workmanship, or point of balance/percussion not being where you wanted it? Something else? Do you have a link to the other thread that you wrote about this issue? I ask because Mr. Pearce is one of the two smiths that I had narrowed it down to for a two sword commission early next year. PM me if you need to please.

I never hear about anything of Tinker's on this site either, is there a reason for it?

Violence is the supreme authority from which all other authority is derived.
View user's profile Send private message
Greg Mele
Industry Professional



Location: Chicago, IL USA
Joined: 20 Mar 2006

Posts: 356

PostPosted: Tue 13 Dec, 2011 6:22 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I have to agree. You essentially ordered a custom sword of a production piece, with slightly different specs and then were upset when it pretty much arrives as ordered. Many people here have scratched their heads about this, and honestly, a lot of makers would not have agreed to take the sword back at all. What Michael did or did not do since then is really not our concern.

Now, do I think people should state if they have had a bad experience with a vendor? Sure. But you've done that, Mr Fletcher, and now it is ad nauseum. I don't really get what more you want from folks here.

Mr Bohnstengel - if you search on Harry Fletcher's name, you will see an extended discussion about his sword and what he didn't like about it. As to the quality of Tinker's work - most have never complained of it. You have to like the general aesthetic that Tinker and Gus go for in their swords, of course. Business transaction-wise, I can't speak to what Tinker does or doesn't do; other than a langsaex he recently made for a friend and delivered early and to spec.

My advice - don't take one good review or one bad as anything other than one data point, and ask around.

Greg Mele
Chicago Swordplay Guild
www.chicagoswordplayguild.com

www.freelanceacademypress.com
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Torsten F.H. Wilke




Location: Irvine Spectrum, CA
Joined: 01 Jul 2006

Posts: 250

PostPosted: Tue 13 Dec, 2011 6:54 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Adam Bohnstengel wrote:
I ask because Mr. Pearce is one of the two smiths that I had narrowed it down to for a two sword commission early next year. ... I never hear about anything of Tinker's on this site either, is there a reason for it?

Adam, it seems he has actually made some decent stuff but is fairly low key around these parts, and he happens to be friends with Angus Trim. As for the original voluminous thread back in Jan/Feb of this year, it seems to have completely disappeared off the face of the Earth. Sleight of hand maybe? I certainly don't know, but I can't even reference my own responses in it...
View user's profile Send private message
Adam Bohnstengel




Location: Spring, TX
Joined: 24 Aug 2011

Posts: 72

PostPosted: Tue 13 Dec, 2011 7:27 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Greg Mele wrote:
Mr Bohnstengel - if you search on Harry Fletcher's name, you will see an extended discussion about his sword and what he didn't like about it. As to the quality of Tinker's work - most have never complained of it. You have to like the general aesthetic that Tinker and Gus go for in their swords, of course. Business transaction-wise, I can't speak to what Tinker does or doesn't do; other than a langsaex he recently made for a friend and delivered early and to spec.

My advice - don't take one good review or one bad as anything other than one data point, and ask around.


I searched for the thread you're talking about, but as Mr. Wilke stated, it seems to have disappeared. Everything else I've read about his swords is good, there just isn't much to read about around here. Don't worry about me taking this review too seriously, I'm just collecting what information I can. I'm still impressed by his work, and he has lots of experience with the larger swords like what I'm going for.

Violence is the supreme authority from which all other authority is derived.
View user's profile Send private message
Greg Mele
Industry Professional



Location: Chicago, IL USA
Joined: 20 Mar 2006

Posts: 356

PostPosted: Tue 13 Dec, 2011 9:40 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I didn't realize the thread was gone - my apologies.

As to your decision - I think there IS a lesson here: just make sure that you and the maker know precisely what you are looking for.

Greg Mele
Chicago Swordplay Guild
www.chicagoswordplayguild.com

www.freelanceacademypress.com
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Joel Chesser




Location: Oklahoma
Joined: 23 Oct 2003

Posts: 714

PostPosted: Tue 13 Dec, 2011 10:22 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Really dude? This? Again?
Of course you haven't gotten your money back. YOUR sword has not sold. It doesn't matter that others have, the more then generous offer by Mr. Pearce was, as I recall, that when YOUR sword sold you would get a refund.
I'm not sure which shocks me more, the fact that ten months have already come and gone, or the fact that you still don't get the terms listed above.

On an up note, I'm glad to hear that Tinker's pieces continue to sell, especially in these hard economic times. Happy

p.s. you do realize that other makers are probably reading this and making mental notes not to to business with you right?

..." The person who dosen't have a sword should sell his coat and buy one."

- Luke 22:36
View user's profile Send private message
Harry J. Fletcher




Location: Lost in Texas
Joined: 19 Aug 2009
Likes: 9 pages
Reading list: 44 books

Posts: 260

PostPosted: Tue 13 Dec, 2011 10:52 pm    Post subject: Response         Reply with quote

The point at issue is that Mr. Pearce is not entitled to both the money and the sword.
To Study The Edge of History
View user's profile Send private message
Mike Capanelli




Location: Whitestone, NY
Joined: 04 Sep 2004
Likes: 4 pages
Reading list: 5 books

Posts: 702

PostPosted: Wed 14 Dec, 2011 5:18 am    Post subject: Re: Response         Reply with quote

Harry J. Fletcher wrote:
The point at issue is that Mr. Pearce is not entitled to both the money and the sword.


Unless I'm missing something here the agreement was that when the sword sold you'd have your money back, right? Did the sword sell? It didn't. Is he planning on keening the sword ad not listing it? Not so. You ordered a custom piece, accepted the photos, and then changed your mind when it got to you. That's not really how custom jobs work. If you approve the photos and send final payment it's now yours. Really you should have been the one to sell it if you didn't like it. so in no way is he "keeping" the sword and "keeping"the money or he would have never offered to sell it. He just would have went ghost when you sent the sword back. If that had happened I'd be on your side but that's not the case is it? Next time save yourself the trouble and order production pieces from Kult of Athena and call it a day.

Winter is coming
View user's profile Send private message
Ken Speed





Joined: 09 Oct 2006

Posts: 656

PostPosted: Wed 14 Dec, 2011 6:19 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I have to agree with Mike Capanelli and whoever it was who said they wish this whole thread would disappear. I can't think that many other sword smiths would agree to do for you what Mr. Pierce has. He told you that he'd pay you when he sold the sword. Are you aware of the state of the economy? Are you aware of the sheer number of businesses in all areas including the historical arms and armor field that are simply not there any more? The reason they aren't there is that no one is buying anything. Just in case you didn't understand what I just wrote: NO ONE IS BUYING ANYTHING. That is why you haven't been paid, getting money from Mr. Pierce through a complaint to a credit card company is hideously unfair under the circumstances.

I've been reading and writing here for years and I have never heard anyone complain about Mr. Pierce's honesty or his product other than in this instance and I think these continued complaints reflect a profound ignorance of reality.
View user's profile Send private message
Matthew G.M. Korenkiewicz




Location: Michigan, USA
Joined: 08 Mar 2004
Reading list: 3 books

Posts: 854

PostPosted: Wed 14 Dec, 2011 7:29 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Wow ...

Some of you guys are being rather harsh, don't you think ?

I've popped in on Mr. F's dilemma and, while I don't personally agree with the
way things have been handled, I can see he's learning a very difficult lesson.

It is a difficult lesson that I myself learned ( no, not with Mr. Tinker Pearce ) ...

I wish him all the luck in finding satisfaction. But I do hope that it can be done
in a more ... amiable ... fashion.
View user's profile Send private message
Greg Mele
Industry Professional



Location: Chicago, IL USA
Joined: 20 Mar 2006

Posts: 356

PostPosted: Wed 14 Dec, 2011 7:55 am    Post subject: Re: Response         Reply with quote

Harry J. Fletcher wrote:
The point at issue is that Mr. Pearce is not entitled to both the money and the sword.


No one thinks that he is. But your sword is being sold on *consignment*. That means you get paid when it sells. Those were the terms you agreed to, and that is why people are exasperated with you.

Greg Mele
Chicago Swordplay Guild
www.chicagoswordplayguild.com

www.freelanceacademypress.com
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Julien M




Location: Austin TX
Joined: 14 Sep 2005

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 1,065

PostPosted: Wed 14 Dec, 2011 8:09 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Torsten F.H. Wilke wrote:
Adam, it seems he has actually made some decent stuff.


I won't elaborate because this post will probably end up in the trash were it probably belongs but this is an understatement.
Tinker is well known in our community as a high end maker, a status well deserved for many years of service in the sword making business.

If that's not enough Paul Chen chose him to design the Hanwei tinker line, that I consider to be clearly the best value for money around 200$...a widely shared opinion.

I'm not deaf to your situation Harry, but the way you handled this all thing is IMO rather indecent (in fact both sides went beyond the line, but that's no reason to go for a second round). Please try to keep your dealings with Mr Tinker private in the future. The rest has been said already.

J


Last edited by Julien M on Wed 14 Dec, 2011 2:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
View user's profile Send private message
Johan Gemvik




Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Joined: 10 Nov 2009

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 793

PostPosted: Wed 14 Dec, 2011 11:36 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I for one really like those Hanwei Tinker blades, lets me make my own swords to my own preference. His complete swords look nice and clean too and seem to cut very well in the youtube videos. I don't own one though but wouldn't mind at all having one or a few in my modest collection.

I only have good things to say about Tinker Peirce and I hope this gets settled to everyones satisfaction. That said, custom jobs in any area can be hard to sell to the full original value or at times to sell at all, that's just how the world works. I think it's commendable for a craftsman to even take back cutsom jobs, most wouldn't, nor would I expect one to.

"The Dwarf sees farther than the Giant when he has the giant's shoulder to mount on" -Coleridge
View user's profile Send private message
Lee O'Hagan




Location: Northamptonshire,England
Joined: 30 Sep 2003
Likes: 5 pages

Posts: 509

PostPosted: Wed 14 Dec, 2011 11:44 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Harry and all,
I followed the original thread with interest,and was glad-impressed to see tinker offer to sell the sword on consignment for you,
alot of collecters have bought swords that appealed but when in hand didnt float their boat as envisioned,most i remember sold them at a loss through the different classifieds stating it just didnt suit them,
not ideal,but more to do with getting the right sword in the long term,
i'd say it was unfair to do the cc chargeback as the sword is still up for sale,i seem to remember you agreeing to a consignment deal,which at the time was suitable to both parties,
so for tinker to have to pay up without an agreed sale is pretty harsh,

from my perspective,
early 09 i put a deposit in with Tinker,speked a type and details etc,then work went downhill,it dragged on for best part of a year where i couldnt committ in good faith for outstanding payment,throughout Tinker was a gentleman,
then out of the blue a little extra turned up,Tinker was gracious enough to swop the deposit over to an already made sword on his available page,with nought more than a two week shipping delay so he could show the sword at an upcoming show,
sword arrived in a pucker rifle case,those are expensive over here;) great piece of work,turned out a great transaction,
later on it turned out the sword he sent me was the cover of his first book,even cooler,
i'd not hesitate to deal with Tinker in the future and i wish him the best,
and i hope this situation is resolved for you Harry,but you may need to be a little more patient,
View user's profile Send private message
J.D. Crawford




Location: Toronto
Joined: 25 Dec 2006

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 1,616

PostPosted: Wed 14 Dec, 2011 2:57 pm    Post subject: Re: More on Tinker Sword         Reply with quote

Harry J. Fletcher wrote:
Every item posted for sale on his website has sold with the exception of the sword he made for me.


Consider the possibility that your own negative comments about this sword, and all the acrimony attached to it, have discouraged people from buying it.
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Harry J. Fletcher




Location: Lost in Texas
Joined: 19 Aug 2009
Likes: 9 pages
Reading list: 44 books

Posts: 260

PostPosted: Wed 14 Dec, 2011 3:51 pm    Post subject: The Central Issue         Reply with quote

Again, the central issue is that Mr. Pearce is not entitled legally to keep both the sword and the money. At no time did I ever agree to anything with Mr. Pearce other than I wanted my money returned alathough I did allow him adequate time to sell the piece to facilitate a refund.
To Study The Edge of History
View user's profile Send private message
Mike Capanelli




Location: Whitestone, NY
Joined: 04 Sep 2004
Likes: 4 pages
Reading list: 5 books

Posts: 702

PostPosted: Wed 14 Dec, 2011 4:10 pm    Post subject: Re: The Central Issue         Reply with quote

Harry J. Fletcher wrote:
Again, the central issue is that Mr. Pearce is not entitled legally to keep both the sword and the money. At no time did I ever agree to anything with Mr. Pearce other than I wanted my money returned alathough I did allow him adequate time to sell the piece to facilitate a refund.


Why do you keep saying that? If he were keeping your sword and not upholding his part of the bargain than it wouldn't be up for sale at this very moment. Did you agree on a reasonable amount of time before hand? I don't know what went on between out in private but from the original thread it didn't seem so. You just said sell it and give me my money back and it hasn't sold so what exactly is the problem. If I were him at this point I would send your sword back to you, let you sell it and then recharge you for he $700 you charged back or take YOU to small claims court, which seems to be what your building up to with your wording.

Winter is coming
View user's profile Send private message
Joe Fults




Location: Midwest
Joined: 02 Sep 2003

Posts: 3,459

PostPosted: Wed 14 Dec, 2011 4:16 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sounds like he has already gone his separate way and if there was still a bridge its now well and truly burned. Talk to your credit card company and see if they have any other options or talk to a lawyer. However, I suspect you're at the proverbial end of the road on this one...it seems certain that no further negotiation will occur. All you're accomplishing by posting more about it is establishing a reputation that you probably don't really want, especially if you imagine that you might like custom work at all in the future. As a spectator in several forums I've seen Tinker fall off the moral high ground from time to time during his career, he's certainly not the wide eyed innocent some people seem inclined to think he is. Never the less, fair or not, after seeing all of this I would be hesitant to risk doing business with you if I were a vendor.
"Our life is what our thoughts make it"
-Marcus Aurelius

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
-John F. Kennedy


Last edited by Joe Fults on Wed 14 Dec, 2011 6:04 pm; edited 1 time in total
View user's profile Send private message


Display posts from previous:   
Forum Index > Off-topic Talk > More on Tinker Sword
Page 1 of 3 Reply to topic
Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next All times are GMT - 8 Hours

View previous topic :: View next topic
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum






All contents © Copyright 2003-2018 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Basic Low-bandwidth Version of the forum